cdx2/xps2/202/hicap/250. cds3 or better preamp?

Speaker first thing is common way of putting a sytsem together. Everyone wants a big ass speakers that dominate the room. ( esp. in US and Japan )
Some do it as a *status* thing. No visitors would ask 'which cd player are you using? ' The question ppl. ask me most is 'what kind of speakers are these? '
I do however, still use a 'fat' speaker cables that can lift a piano with.

Naim gear isn't, for sure, a status symbol thing. Noone hardly notice they are even there.

I always thought that you get more out of spekers than electronics with the same amount of money spent. A return on digital stuff also, sometimes is not as rewarding. ( this is one of the reason why I think everyone is recommending a preamp upgrade over moving from CDX2 to CDS3 )

As for the running-in process for Naim gear, they are about the same as any other gear. Nothing mysterious or unusual about it. Most of the sonic traits are there right out of the box, but they continue getting better over time.

One thing tho, they do sound worse when they are powered off for a long time and sound considerably better when powered on for at least a day or two than most other solid state gear I've owned.

Hello, the reason I question the burn in thing is, I have heard bigger improvements over a small amount of time withthe Naim gear than with my tube gear,who knew ??

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Originally posted by ben r:
Hello, the reason I question the burn in thing is, I have heard bigger improvements over a small amount of time withthe Naim gear than with my tube gear,who knew ??

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That does not surprise me. Some output tubes as well as even small signal NOS tubes take 200+ hours to sound optimal.

Ben r,
Shame you didn't post earlier, I was in Boston a few weeks ago on holiday (and boy was it cold!).

I chose a 252 with a CDX2/XPS2 over a 282 with a CDS3 for two reasons -
1. The 252 benefits all input sources, and I regularly use 5 (T/table, CD, NAT02, Digital TV, and tape), and was a huge improvement over my 82.
2. I just prefer the CDX2/XPS2 to the CDS3! Rougher, yes, less refined certainly, but somehow more immediate. Also I found the CDS3 transport fiddly to use and easy to get scratched and dusty. Having used a CDX for 5 years it was a definite improvement anyway - but definitely a personal choice.

Ben

Firstly:

1. What is the layout of your room (i.e how far are you from the speakers, how is the room furnished)
2. What do you want from your system (is there any aspect that you would like improved, or do you want 'more of the same')
3. Stands, mains abd ser up (what do you use and how is the equipment arranged )

Your answers will determine what I think you should go for. I would actually consult a good dealer in yoru shoes, you are about to spend a lot of money, it's important that you spend it wisely.

regards

Dev

Welcome to New England. Chris yes we have had an usually cold winter, you bring up another good point, other sources benfit dramatically with the better preamp, I use 2 primarily cd and lp but maybe more in the future, I dont know if i can afford the 252 but I think I will go for the 282 as it should sound better than the 202 I hope, thanks,Ben r

Dev, thanks for your input, room is small about 15x12 I use salamander stands, specifically made for audio equipment, everything is on its own shelf into a wiremold,just like Naim recommends.. I guess I am just looking to get the most musical sound for the money that I can spend, just dont want to miss anything or short change my system, it looks like my 202 is the weak link, good preamp though, was just wondering about the options to make a noticeable improvement...I define musical as something that makes you get into the groove and makes you want to listen more and enjoy it. It looks like the most viable is to a 282 or a used 52/supercap,then to a 252,supercap, thats the general response that I have been getting, thanks,Ben r

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Originally posted by Chris Metcalfe:
2. I just prefer the CDX2/XPS2 to the CDS3! Rougher, yes, less refined certainly, but somehow more immediate. Also I found the CDS3 transport fiddly to use and easy to get scratched and dusty. Having used a CDX for 5 years it was a definite improvement anyway - but definitely a personal choice.

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Chris,

That is the same conundrum I had with CDS3 over my CDX2/XPS2.
How long did you demo the CDS3 ?

I certanly could not pull the trigger in a day home audition as I preferd CDX2's openness and upbeat quality even tho, CDS3 sounded more grown-up.

It's hell of a lot more holistic and natural sounding than CDX2 ( less hit you over the head quality ) that I have appreciated about CDS3 but I needed longer time with it to see if i can live with one.

OTOH, moving from three other preamps ( Krell, Linn and 282) to 252 was pretty black and white.

Hello Graham, thats another way to go that I didnt really think of, supercap with existing 202 would that sound better than a 282 with a hicap ? anybody heard that one,given the fact that I already have a 202 that might work too I have a hicap now....I could go to the 282 and keep my hicap, I can trade it in within 1 year and get full credit to a 252(of course I will double check that with my dealer) that is why I was considering going from my 202 to the 282,thanks,Ben r

Ben

You should be able to find a secondhand 52 roughly in the same price range as a new 282.

True you have to get a supercap as well, but it would be worth it.

p.s. a 282/82 with hicap is nowhere near the equal of a 282/82 supercap.

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Originally posted by ben r:
Hello, well its seems overwhelming that you all think a better preamp is the way to go, specifically the 252/supercap,yikes that one is a big financial step,even with the ninkas and allaes or other quality modest(in this sense) speaker.do you think the 252/supercap would shine thru with those speakers ? also it was brought up looking at a used 52 etc which isnt a bad way to go but because I can trade my preamp for full credit I think I would go 282 for right now, but you certainly got me intrigued with the 252/supercap as always appreciate the responses, thanks,Ben r

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I upgraded my 82/Supercap to a 252/Supercap and even through my secondary part of the system (140/Royd The Minstrels) the difference was remarkable.
Through my SBL's that I had at that time, the difference was also remarkable :-)
Allaes are more than capable of showing off the improvement.
Having said all of that, a 2nd hand 52 would still show a big improvement over what you currently use.

Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......

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Originally posted by kuma:

A great source would be a complete waste if somewhere down a signal chain downstream components are limiting its capability.

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This line of reasoning seems quite seductive until you actually do the comparison.

Ben, if you are buying new, my advice would be to find a good dealer who's able and willing to demonstrate better source vs better preamp. If you follow this advice, perhaps you would be willing to report back to the Forum.

Hello Paul, here is the rub, my dealer doesnt have any of this on display, they only have series 5 and now are just getting the 202/200. So quite frankly I know more than they do. What I have done is ordered the 282 for a couple of reasons, the first is value, this would be the least expensive step up and I am getting full credit for my 202, second once it lands I want to let everything run in together for a good amount of time and really get into the system, This is what it will be cdx2/xps2/282/hicap/napsc/250/allaes or ninkas oh I wll also have a stageline.....once I fully get to know the system and how it sounds with both lps and cds then I am going to ask the dealer to get for me to audition both a cds3 and a 252/supercap...believe me I like finding things out for myself. It will be interesting because given my above system NANA says def a cds3 it will depend on how much i listen to lps vs cds too, but once and for all I am going to find out what is a bigger upgrade cds3 or 252/supercap....again I have no dealer who has anything close to this stuff on display it is very frustrating to say the least, Ben r

Ben

I applaud your plan, the only item that might be worth aiming to get as soon as possible is the Supercap. A 282 trully deserves a Supercap.

I have CDX2/282/SC/250mkI and am now going to finish that off with the XPS2 than cry STOP!!.
On the way there the 282 was driven variously by 1 HiCap, 2HiCaps and now the SC. The 1 HC vs 2 HC thing really did nothing much, it was only when the SC arrived that I got to hear the full ability of the 282.

I am not saying it will be as good as a 252 but since you will need the SC for the 252 it would be worth getting it and hearing the 282/SC combination so when the big bucks need to come out for the 252 you will be really clear what improvement you are looking for.

regards
GEOFF

Geoff, thats a good idea, forgot about that one, actually if they get me a cds3 and a 252/supercap then I can try that....wait until you get the xps2 when you do hook it up (obviously) listen to it for awhile then take it off you wont believe it....bon voyage,ben r

Thanks for the suggestion Ben. I have been doing that sort of thing all the way thru' my upgrade path. Incidentally there was a typo in my last post, it should say 250mkII.
I played my old "starting point" system a 112/HC/150 just for old times sake before I finally waved goodbye to it.
It was still not half bad BUUUUTT!!!
It is a great way of re-convincing yourself you did the right thing!

Incidentally I have pretty much convinced myself that the shop "demo" and even 1 week at home is not going to show you what your kit will finally sound like.
The nice thing about this is that it invaribly sounds better and better as you get to live with it over a real period of time, so if I like the quick demo I kinow I am going to love the living with it experience.

GEOFF

Geoff, yes another good point about a dem at home, I am hoping they will have this on disply and burned in,your right if I try to evaluate it cold it might not work out too well, I think the best way sometimes to dem naim is backwards kind of what you did with your 112/150 listen to it after you have the better gear, I am finding that the more I listen to the xps2(it is still running in) the more you cant listen to a bare cdx2 scary thought.....also the xps2 retrieves more information that is on the cd, I mean I have heard vocal tracks that were not there before....who knows maybe i will dive in deep and go for broke (literally) Ben r