CD Player or Speakers?

Quote:-

I'd say I'm very happy with how things sound at present
_______________________________________________________

If your happy with the way your sistem sounds then stop any thoughts on up-grading. Its a long endless journey.

Spend your money on more CD's instead.


Regards


NB

Or...

Get some separate mains spurs fitted (Naim kit definitely benefits from it, the Quad CDP may do too)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Paul Hutchings:
Room is about 14" x 12"

---

Must be an intimate listening experience....

JonR - Feet

Seagull - nice thought but not my place so can't

NB - don't worry.. I'm not falling into the "look at my £20k system but I have 3 CDs" trap.. I have plenty of CDs and keep acquiring more!

Basically I tend to buy fairly shrewdly, though admittedly I do sometimes buy for the hell of it, that's how I got the Nait 5, happened to see one on Ebay one day, thought "what the hell" and got it for £420 (2003 model, mint).

The Quad cost me £150 5 years ago, it has a few intermittent faults and I figure it doesn't owe me anything if I decided to treat myself.

Speakers, dunno.. call it curiosity what might be out there that may be better suited to my tastes (which have changed since getting the JMs).

cheers,
Paul

Hi Paul

Just on the music choice thing for a start...

To me it's irrelevant what you listen to in the way of genre. Gear is not intelligent. It only plays the way it was designed. Therefore if a particular item plays, for instance, with a smooth character, then all your music will have that character imparted into it.
You can't really avoid this, so manufacturers try to make something that is reasonably versatile.
All music has certain things in common though, namely rhythm, pace, etc etc to varying degrees.

So get yourself a Naim Cd player, as they emphasise those more important aspects of music, and place things of lesser or nil quality into the background. They're stll there of course, but not Naim's reason for being.

Try a CD5, or the forthcoming CD5x, or if you really wanna splash out, a CDX2.

Leave the speakers IMO. The CD player is the weakest link and should be said goodbye to. Soon.

Joe90

A CD5i might be an option, not sure I can justify the cost of a 5 or higher.. I don't know.. if you look at it from a certain point of view it's a few pence a day over ten years, but from another point of view it's still the thick-end of a grand.

I'm in the midlands and music matters and acoustica are my local naim dealers, not sure I'd feel right asking to borrow one - I'm never sure that a demo in a demo room gives much of a feel of how it would sound in my (far from perfect) environment?

Paul

Paul

I would change the speakers first. I had Chorus, Elektra and Utopia and I can say they are good speakers and the difference between them is big.

I changed the internal wiring of the Chorus with NACA5 /for bass/mid driver/ and Chord speaker cable for the tweeter with surprisingly good results. You can try this, if you have some technical skills.

Check the s/h market. At the Chorus price you can find better speakers.

Emil

If you're happy, don't upgrade. However, if you are thinking of a new CD player, I would consider staying away from the "i" and opt for the CD5 (or 5x, but this is the first I've heard of it).

Since you have a Niat 5 (non-i), a non-i CD player will allow both to benefit from a flatcap2 down the road. Of course, now we are opening a new can of worms.

-M

Naim equipment responds well to the source first philosophy if you are upgrading over a period of time.

You will always get a better sound per Pound or Dollar spent by buying the best CD player and PSU you can.

Next step is the amplification and then your speakers.

This approach has stood the test of time.

Regards

Mick

Boys

I had these speakers. If this is the old Chorus, then they are a real bottle neck!

Paul

Can you do a home demo with other speakers. What is your speaker cable?

Emil

Thanks to everyone for their input so far, still confused but the more i read the (slightly) clearer it becomes.

I take the points about the 5 being more upgradeable than the newer 5i, haven't decided if that's a good thing as if something can be upgraded, inevitably you look at doing it..

Any thoughts on the older CD3 and 3.5? Seems these go for silly money on ebay but once in a while something comes up on one of the forums for around £350 or so.. guess it's more of a gamble the older you go?

Oh, Dynaudio.. heard the audience 42s on the end of a cyrus/arcam setu pand was staggered at the size of the sound from something so small.. most people say naim/dynaudio is a good match, but any thoughts on audience vs contour?

Just sounding out some of my thoughts/options so i can dismiss the ones that are definate no-no's

Paul

quote:

---

Originally posted by Emil F.:
Boys

I had these speakers. If this is the old Chorus, then they are a real bottle neck!

Paul

Can you do a home demo with other speakers. What is your speaker cable?

Emil

---

Emil,

Depends how you mean "old", they're the model as per http://www.focal.tm.fr/gb/home/archives/chorus/c706.htm, so I think they've been superceded.

Home demo may be an option, but with stuff like speakers I'd tend to look second-hand, and I wouldn't want to waste a dealers time if I had no intention of buying from them.. the Chorus I had from new and I'm sure they're quite capable within their price range, though I'm wondering if the rest of my kit deserves the next step up..

oh, naca5 3.5m pair

On Dynaudio, the contours tend to need a little more power than the audience to get them to speak with authority, particularly in the bookshelf models. I noticed a dramatic improvement from my contour 1.1s when I went from a Nait 5 to a 202/200.

If you get one of the used CD players (3.5) I believe it will also be able to benefit from a PS upgrade.

-M

OK, from making a few tentative "wanted maybe" posts I've been offered a pair of 42s for £250 and a pair of Contour 1.1s for £450ish, there's also a pair on ebay that are currently on £350 with the 1st bid and 2 days on the clock.

Still in limbo over a CDP, seen a CD3 for around £325, but I think captain sensible is saying to buy something new(er).

Can I get some advice on the Nait5 suitability with 4ohm Dynaudios? I find at the moment with my JMLabs that I can get room filling volume with the dial at around 10am.

Paul

Paul.
Please dont feel I am hijacked your thread, or doing the "hard sell" but those are my "tentaive offer speakers"
This is little odd and I can assure you I have not a split personality, but I feal I must comment ...
With regard to cdp or speakers upgrade I upgraded my cdp well before getting my ideal speakers I think you would get more for your money following the source first principle and doing the same.

Anyhow this is my expeirence with both of the speakers.

The 1.1s are fantastic if you have the power to drive them ? they will NOT suit your nait5. I had them on a 180 for a while and that wasnt realy up to it untill I acuired a 250 then they where fantastic. With that said I still upgraded to a pair of 1.8mk2 to be completly happy.

The 42,s however will be a good match. I have them on a little 30w Denon system and they realy sing.
I cant realy explain why as they are both 4 ohms but the 42's are much more happy on lower powered amps.

All that said it wasnt until I got my CDX and then the Dyn 1.8's I fealt that I hade the perfectly balanced system.


Phil

Paul,

I think you're right to be cautious about buying an old CD player. Another option is to get one ex-dem. I picked up an immaculate CD5 from Acoustica recently for £700 - just as cheap as chancing it on ebay and it came with a 6-month warranty.

Mike

My advice is, if you plan to upgrade in the future and unless you have money to burn, do not buy new.
I started my Naim "expierence" buying new 2yrs ago(cd5,102+180) and came to regretted it, not that the gear wasnt fantastic, it was, but now I have a CDX/82(2Hi)250 and dyn 1,8's all second hand, the oldest piece is only 18 mths old and it cost the same as my original outlay. OK I recouped some cash by selling the cd5 etc but still lost 50%.
If I started on the 2nd hand scene 2 yrs ago I may well be sitting in front of a 52/supercap/135s by now !!
If you follow sensible precautions (check ser number, and seller, get a demo etc) and buy from the right places its as safe as any dealer. Plus you get the benifit of pre run in equipment that has been cherished by fanatical Naim owners.
Its the only way to go.
Phil

Certainly don't have money to burn.. I figure speakers are a safe bet as Dynaudio have a lengthy warranty and (famous last words) speakers don't tend to break unless you make them do so.

A used CDP has me wary simply because you buy a used one and regardless of the make they're mechanical so it could need a new transport/mech tomorrow.. let along after a good kicking by parcelforce :-)

I may have a word with Acoustica and try and get a demo of a 5 and a 5i arranged, the Stafford store doesn't seem to get a lot of browsers and I've had excellent service from Craig on the couple of occasions I've used them before.

Now, back to the Dynaudio thing, I'm trying to get a grasp on the suitability issue - I don't want to sound like I'm suggesting I know better as you've had/used both with a Nait 5, but on paper, from the specs on the Dynaudio site they appear to both be 4ohm, 86db, with "Small size rooms: > 25 Watts" being Dynaudios recommendation?

regards,
Paul

[This message was edited by Paul Hutchings on Thu 22 April 2004 at 12:47.]

Paul.
I can understand why they look the same on paper, but belive me, they are definatly not the same to drive.
It is very dangerous to do a pure spec comparison with anything, if we did that no one would buy any Naim gear !!
I would have left my 120 watt NAD amp in piece and not spent a fortune chasing down a 70 watt Naim 250.

Dont get me wrong the 1.1's are superb speakers and the Nait5 will sound great on them, the punch in the bass and detailed soundstage really complement Naim, (I prefer Dyn's and Naim equipment to anything I have heard, maybe NEAT's are on par ?)anyhow provided you dont wind the volume up, as soon as you do they will start to SHOUT at you and the high's will become harsh. The 42's dont exhibit this when played harder, but again its true they dont sound as good as the 1.1 (but that should be expected).

The only way prove this is to do a home demo, you may find that the 1.1's are perfect at your listening levels.

Phil

quote:

---

Originally posted by fled:

anyhow provided you dont wind the volume up, as soon as you do they will start to SHOUT at you and the high's will become harsh. The 42's dont exhibit this when played harder, but again its true they dont sound as good as the 1.1 (but that should be expected).

Phil

---

phil,

Sorry to be pedantic but what would you call "winding the volume up"? As i mentioned earlier it seldom gets above 10am and I think the input gain's for the CD's only about half-way.

If I do decide on the Dynaudio route the Contours seem better value, as well as being a "better" quality of speaker, but narutally it's academic if they're going to suck with the Nait :-)

Point taken about the numbers game, numbers aside Nait staggers me, it's hard to describe but basically i find myself listening to CDs that I'd previously got to about track 2 on and thought "well this is shite".

What do people do about home demo's when looking at s/h gear?? It's not often you see what you're looking for in the same area as you at the right price, and I'd never expect a dealer to loan me kit that I'd return, say "liked it but no thanks" and then go in three months later for my next upgrade and feel embarassed at explaining how i'd now got said item from three months back?!

Paul

You did not mention anything about your mains?
Note that optimized mains can give you depending on system 10 to 30-40% more power, control and hi-fi attributes.

I hope that you have very good speakers stands. Are they filled with sand or something else?

Emil

your not being pedantic.
Your right the 1.1's are a better speaker and for the money a real bargin.
But please demo them first, if you can. My 102/180 ran out of steam at about 10am on the volume dial(not sure what that represents on a Nait5). It was still fantastic but started to exhibit strain i.e. a bit of siblance on female vocals and hard treble. Your Cardigans albums may suffer a little.

I agree demoing second hand stuff is not easy, but dealers do sell second hand and should be prepared to loan one out. They should be price competative in the 2nd hand market otherwise they shouldnt offer the service ?
What I am saying is you should not consider it as "not an intention to buy" but they have to be realistic in price or am I being unfair ?

Failing that then its persuding the seller to do a home demo, fine if you are close, bit of a nightmare if your not.
I have travelled, the length and bredth of the UK, from east sussex to bristol, to Yorkshire. upgrading my gear, I think it has been worth the agro. (I only buy 2nd hand if I can physically pick it up) but the savings outway the petrol cost 10 fold.
Phil

quote:

---

Originally posted by Emil F.:
Paul

You did not mention anything about your mains?
Note that optimized mains can give you depending on system 10 to 30-40% more power, control and hi-fi attributes.

I hope that you have very good speakers stands. Are they filled with sand or something else?

Emil

---

Mains isn't much of an option as it's not my house. For the moment things are in a good quality (i.e not £3 plastic) Olson non-filtered mains block.

I have some Alphasons twin-column things that I've had since I was a teenager - being honest I suppose until now I've mostly thought of stands as something to put the speakers on.

regards,
Paul

quote:

---

Originally posted by Paul Hutchings:
If I do decide on the Dynaudio route the Contours seem better value, as well as being a "better" quality of speaker, but narutally it's academic if they're going to suck with the Nait :-)

---

The Nait is perfectly good for quality speakers, but I can't see the point of better speakers until the CD player is sorted. That is, is the CD66 up to the task, or is a better CD player required? For me you have to start with the source. Which actually means getting the mains sorted before anything else.

Peter

User34 at Laposte dot net

well, it's a beautiful day, so i'm going to have a few hours off and go for a drive that'll probably take me past music matters so I may stop by for a browse/chat (not expecting a demo on the spur of the moment).

i take the point about mains, bottom line is not my house so it can't/won't happen.

regards,
Paul