Do you love your Linn LP 12?

Posted by: Arye_Gur on 12 April 2004

As I'm looking for an s/h TT to replace my Thorens, I read
this site
And here few quotes from there: "A superb turntable/tonearm combination (TOWNSHEND ROCK REFERENCE ) that was very underrated by the audio press. A number of English 'reviewers' disgraced themselves, and their profession, by claiming it wasn’t even equal to the performance of the far inferior Linn Sondek. (This embarrassment occurred during the "Linn Hysteria" of the early 1980's.) Their matching tonearm, the Excalibur, was also excellent."

And another: "While the Linn obviously "sounds very good", all of the turntables above have sonic advantages, and some of them (the latest VPI, Oracle, Orbe or the older Maplenoll) are superior to the Linn by a relatively large margin (for turntables).
Why and how?
These others turntables all have much more up-to-date designs. It is actually amazing that the Linn sounds as good as it does, but the Cetech modification, discussed below, demonstrates what Linn has overlooked and ignored all these years. This is the result of marketing trumping basic engineering"

And the last one (there are much more there) – "You may "live happily ever after" with the used Linn, but if not, it should be very easy to resell it and recoup most, or even all, of your money, but never fool yourself into thinking that you own "one of the world's finest turntables", you don't"

Maybe I did right when I sold the Linn/mageddon/ittok – but what will I buy now?

Arye

Posted on: 12 April 2004 by jpk73

DPS...?

Posted on: 12 April 2004 by Juliandowd

Hi Ayre,
try the Phonosophie 3 with the new Phonosophie Tonearm.
JD

Posted on: 12 April 2004 by Arye_Gur

JD,
It is too expensive, I'm looking for a s/h TT.

Derek,
I don't think this person has an anti-Britsh agenda as most of the products he loves are British made, but maybe Ivor T. did insult him once ...

Arye

Posted on: 12 April 2004 by Colin Ackerman

HI Arye

How about a Alphason.

Colin.

Posted on: 12 April 2004 by Colin Ackerman

Hi Arye.

How about a Alphason.

Colin.

Posted on: 12 April 2004 by Arye_Gur

Do you sell it ?

Arye

Posted on: 12 April 2004 by Paul C

Hi DerekM

I had the pleasure of meeting Authur Salvator a couple of times (not). To put it lightly he is a deaf clown with an attitude. He claims he is an anolog guy and expert, but you go visit his hole in the wall of a hifi shop and he doesn't have a turntable in sight.
He claims to have heard all this great gear but most of it sounds like crap.
My Nait 3 is a better piece of hifi than the Wyetech 572B I used to own, IMO. Well certainly more entertaining.

Posted on: 12 April 2004 by Colin Ackerman

quote:
Originally posted by Arye_Gur:
Do you sell it ?

Arye

Hi Arye

No, the Alphason is a old TT not made for about ten years. I have two of these TT, the one in the above photo is my old Sonata (this was Alphason's demo deck hence the gold spring posts and record clamp). Both my TT are fitted wih the Alphason HR100S-MCS tone arm and the TT in my main system has a Alphason Atlas P/S.
The Alphason is a heavy TT about 23KG. The tone arm is it's best feature, made of titanium with the best bearings and silver wiring it can still mix it with the top arms made today

. It has the same 3 spring sub chassis as the LP12 but is not so fussy about support. These TT can be picked up second hand very cheap considering it would cost £2K-£3K if made now.

Colin

Posted on: 12 April 2004 by Goldstar

Yes, I love my linn LP12, It has been with me (in use every day) for 12 years and has never let me down.

It sounds good too!

Regards Robert

Posted on: 13 April 2004 by Christopher

The LP12 is great a great jazz spinner, no denying that, but i reckon the P9 pees all over it!

But if you do want an excellent nearly new LP12 + Armageddon check out the infidelity site in the next week or so...

Posted on: 13 April 2004 by Naimed-In-NY

quote:
Originally posted by Colin Ackerman:
quote:
Originally posted by Arye_Gur:
Do you sell it ?

Arye

Hi Arye

No, the Alphason is a old TT not made for about ten years. I have two of these TT, the one in the above photo is my old Sonata (this was Alphason's demo deck hence the gold spring posts and record clamp). Both my TT are fitted wih the Alphason HR100S-MCS tone arm and the TT in my main system has a Alphason Atlas P/S.
The Alphason is a heavy TT about 23KG. The tone arm is it's best feature, made of titanium with the best bearings and silver wiring it can still mix it with the top arms made today . It has the same 3 spring sub chassis as the LP12 but is not so fussy about support. These TT can be picked up second hand very cheap considering it would cost £2K-£3K if made now.

Colin

Hi, Colin. I have the same tonearm and echo your thoughts. It is a great arm. I put mine on a VPI turntable about 15 years ago and it's done a great job ever since. What ever happened to Alphason?

MBM

Posted on: 13 April 2004 by Rockingdoc

O.K. Just for you, I set up my Townsend Rock and my LP12 in the same system this weekend. I even went to the trouble of swapping cartridges over. I used the Ortofon Rohmann M/C and Goldring 1042 M/M.

The Townsend is significantly faster sounding, with some snare beats quite scary. It also does deep bass. The Linn was more laid back (despite the hype), but not lacking detail. The Townsend was more flat-earth than the Linn, which is heresy, of course.

After many hours listening I decided that the Linn is the better listening experience, particularly with the MC cartridge, but both were good.

What irritates me about the Linn is its inconsistency on a day to day basis. I have two LP12s of the same age, both set up by the same shop, but swapping arms over they sound hugely different from each other.
The Townsend always sounds the same.

Posted on: 13 April 2004 by domfjbrown

quote:
Originally posted by DerekM:
....he is the only person (or close to it) in the audio world who doesn't have an agenda, yet then goes on to state that the LP-12 is the most overated product in audio history!

I don't have any agenda either, and I agree with him 100% on this comment. I just don't get the fuss with the Linn; an Orbe is far superior IMHO, and most other decks I've heard aren't any worse than the Linn...

I won't say any more than that though - most people think I'm nuts because I prefer my Planar 3 over a full spec LP12...

__________________________
Don't wanna be cremated or buried in a grave
Just dump me in a plastic bag and leave me on the pavement
A tribute to your modern world, your great society
I'm just another victim of your highrise fantasy!

Posted on: 13 April 2004 by o.j.

quote:
Originally posted by domfjbrown:
quote:
Originally posted by DerekM:
....he is the only person (or close to it) in the audio world who doesn't have an agenda, yet then goes on to state that the LP-12 is the most overated product in audio history!

I don't have any agenda either, and I agree with him 100% on this comment. I just don't get the fuss with the Linn; an Orbe is far superior IMHO, and most other decks I've heard aren't any worse than the Linn...

I won't say any more than that though - most people think I'm nuts because I prefer my Planar 3 over a full spec LP12...

__________________________
Don't wanna be cremated or buried in a grave
Just dump me in a plastic bag and leave me on the pavement
A tribute to your modern world, your great society
I'm just another victim of your highrise fantasy!

Hy Domfjbrown!i agree:most people think.....and i prefer also p3.
I think also lp12 is overrated as a stand alone product, but in a linn chain its imo not
overrated(soundwise)
O.J.

Posted on: 13 April 2004 by Simon Matthews

0.j

Sorry but IMO the lp12 is so superior to a planar 3 that I can only assume the lp12 you heard was totally knackered or that we fundamentally listen to music VERY differntly.

Secondly you say "the lp12 is overrated as a stand alone product, but in a linn chain its imo not overrated"

I can't agree here either. IMO current linn electronics fail miserably at extracting the strong points of an lp12 presentation - creating a dull and overly polite rendition. Other amplification (naim/bryson/denson etc) do a much better job of showing an lp12 in a good light.

Posted on: 13 April 2004 by o.j.

quote:
Originally posted by Simon Matthews:
0.j

Sorry but IMO the lp12 is so superior to a planar 3 that I can only assume the lp12 you heard was totally knackered or that we fundamentally listen to music VERY differntly.

Secondly you say "the lp12 is overrated as a stand alone product, but in a linn chain its imo not overrated"

I can't agree here either. IMO current linn electronics fail miserably at extracting the strong points of an lp12 presentation - creating a dull and overly polite rendition. Other amplification (naim/bryson/denson etc) do a much better job of showing an lp12 in a good light.

Hy Simon!think we listen quite differently.heared lp12 that were definitly not knackered.Maybe i do not like turntable with special strong points.(tonal colouration??)
imo linn amplification of today is quite o.k.
But not as emotional involving as my nait 3.
Not talking about klimax series(think they are
great)
O.J.

Posted on: 13 April 2004 by Steve B

I like my LP12 but accept there are probably many turntables out there that better it.

I just find it hard to believe that anyone would prefer a planar 3 to it though!

Steve B

Posted on: 13 April 2004 by o.j.

quote:
Originally posted by Steve B:
I like my LP12 but accept there are probably many turntables out there that better it.

I just find it hard to believe that anyone would prefer a planar 3 to it though!

Steve B

Hy steve!to be correct i prefer
a p3 to lp12.imo p3 is sounding alot better than planar3.
Which turntable is superor? two different concepts, two different sounds.I admit that the
building cost of a Lp 12 are a lot higher than those of rega p3 but i cannot find any sign,that there is something definitly better
in lp12 concept.i am not talking about more
precise built ekos arm(rega has also anrb1000 arm i did not see and hear until now and therefore icannot judge),or akiva mc cartridge.
O.J.

Posted on: 13 April 2004 by hicapman

Hi,
I used to own a Rega 3 and it was a great deck I modded mine a great deal but in my opinion in it's standard form I prefered the LP12 but the Rega was far better than the Linn Axis which I believe at the time was a lot more expensive.Try adding a linn Valhalla power supply to a P3,it's totally transformed.

Posted on: 13 April 2004 by o.j.

quote:
Originally posted by hicapman:
Hi,
I used to own a Rega 3 and it was a great deck I modded mine a great deal but in my opinion in it's standard form I prefered the LP12 but the Rega was far better than the Linn Axis which I believe at the time was a lot more expensive.Try adding a linn Valhalla power supply to a P3,it's totally transformed.

Hicapman!A standardform of a rega p3is
imo a p3 with rb300 on a rega wallshelf. Please can you tell me standard form of lp12?
O.J.

i remember ikea table

Posted on: 13 April 2004 by hicapman

Hi again O.J.!
LP12 in most standard form i believe was with basic plus arm k5 cartridge and no Valhalla p/s.Still a great deck in this form.(have not heard anything better than a Technics SP10 with SME V and Rohmann cartridge

Ikea Lacks are supposed to be good with P3.

Posted on: 13 April 2004 by o.j.

quote:
Originally posted by hicapman:
Hi again O.J.!
LP12 in most standard form i believe was with basic plus arm k5 cartridge and no Valhalla p/s.Still a great deck in this form.(have not heard anything better than a Technics SP10 with SME V and Rohmann cartridge Ikea Lacks are supposed to be good with P3.

Hycapman!Think also that
sp10 was a great deck .Never had the chance to
hear it vs lp12 or rega or other turntables
in a home hifisystem(would like to hear).....But ikea lack was definitly the first recommended lp 12 "rack"
i can remember end of 70 or beginning eighties.
Also i remember söund organisationwallshelf.
O.J.

Posted on: 13 April 2004 by hicapman

How I regret selling that Rega, might have to get another

start collecting vinyl again.But the oroblem for me now is that i would have to get a phono stage as well and this is starting to look expensive.

Posted on: 13 April 2004 by o.j.

quote:
Originally posted by hicapman:
How I regret selling that Rega, might have to get another start collecting vinyl again.But the oroblem for me now is that i would have to get a phono stage as well and this is starting to look expensive.

Hicapman! i Do not know dynavector or naim phonostage.But my phonostage is the third
best i have ever heared. Behind the two FMs.
So we are talking about nearby 700 euros.
For real freaks: p3 with good mc cartridge and phonostage.......and wallshelf 1700 euros!
and secondhandvinyl is pricewise on the ground
at the moment.(for listeners not for collectors)
O.J.

Posted on: 13 April 2004 by hicapman

I have never owned an LP12 but have heard that the suspension needs adjusting quite often, is this true?
OJ, what phono stage are you using at the moment? I once heard a Nad PP1 phono stage, I thought it was awful,but then it only cost £50/60.The phono stage in an Audiolab 8000a integrated amp(£500) was far superior.