Do you love your Linn LP 12?

Posted by: Arye_Gur on 12 April 2004

As I'm looking for an s/h TT to replace my Thorens, I read
this site
And here few quotes from there: "A superb turntable/tonearm combination (TOWNSHEND ROCK REFERENCE ) that was very underrated by the audio press. A number of English 'reviewers' disgraced themselves, and their profession, by claiming it wasn’t even equal to the performance of the far inferior Linn Sondek. (This embarrassment occurred during the "Linn Hysteria" of the early 1980's.) Their matching tonearm, the Excalibur, was also excellent."

And another: "While the Linn obviously "sounds very good", all of the turntables above have sonic advantages, and some of them (the latest VPI, Oracle, Orbe or the older Maplenoll) are superior to the Linn by a relatively large margin (for turntables).
Why and how?
These others turntables all have much more up-to-date designs. It is actually amazing that the Linn sounds as good as it does, but the Cetech modification, discussed below, demonstrates what Linn has overlooked and ignored all these years. This is the result of marketing trumping basic engineering"

And the last one (there are much more there) – "You may "live happily ever after" with the used Linn, but if not, it should be very easy to resell it and recoup most, or even all, of your money, but never fool yourself into thinking that you own "one of the world's finest turntables", you don't"

Maybe I did right when I sold the Linn/mageddon/ittok – but what will I buy now?

Arye

Posted on: 14 April 2004 by o.j.

quote:
Originally posted by hicapman:
I have never owned an LP12 but have heard that the suspension needs adjusting quite often, is this true?
OJ, what phono stage are you using at the moment? I once heard a Nad PP1 phono stage, I thought it was awful,but then it only cost £50/60.The phono stage in an Audiolab 8000a integrated amp(£500) was far superior.

I am using the phono stage that is normaly built in in an mace audio preamp. Mister "mace"
Michael czech built it as a standalone phonostage and i use it with a 24V netadapter.
I have had two years Camtech phonostage. i
think it was german product name for audiolab.
(later on the technical basement of tag mc larenmclaren.)the camtech was tonally ok and sounding very smooth.but it was more majestic
than punchy compared to macestage or linto or
FM. ialso remember that the camtech was agood tool to compare different cartridges because
it was possible to use different resistors and you couldplug them in from outside the housing.
mace phono stage has 100 ohm impedance ( perfect match with my goldring elite1.My experiences with elite 1 are quite others than
those of test in tnt audio.It sounded perfect
from the beginning with 100 ohms,and i would
say it is sound wise in the direction of linn
akiva.(of course not that detailed and dynamic)
before elite i had benz mc gold and two glider versions( high and L2)but imo(or in my system)
elite sounds tonal alot more neutral,and imo
it has not less punch than benz cartridges in bass.
O.J.

Posted on: 14 April 2004 by domfjbrown

The LP12 I heard (when I got my Planar 3) was the full 1998 spec (including Lingo etc). It sounded dull and ploddy - didn't do ANY groove for me. The rest of the rig was also Linn though so that might not have helped; the Rega went thru the amp's internal phono stage while the Linn went through a Linn outboard phono stage (I think - Linto??).

The only LP12 I've heard that I'd even consider using at home is the one in Audio-T Reading, when it had a lush Aro and (I think) Dynavector on it.

I guess we must listen to music very differently, but even with the knackered K5 cart on the Planar 3 when I heard it, the Linn sounded like a battered 78 gramaphone on non-pristine vinyl, whilst the Planar 3 sounded excellent.

Considering the Rega was approximately a tenth of the LP12 in cost terms at full price, that kind of clinched my opinion!

__________________________
Don't wanna be cremated or buried in a grave
Just dump me in a plastic bag and leave me on the pavement
A tribute to your modern world, your great society
I'm just another victim of your highrise fantasy!

Posted on: 14 April 2004 by o.j.

quote:
Originally posted by domfjbrown:
The LP12 I heard (when I got my Planar 3) was the full 1998 spec (including Lingo etc). It sounded dull and ploddy - didn't do ANY groove for me. The rest of the rig was also Linn though so that might not have helped; the Rega went thru the amp's internal phono stage while the Linn went through a Linn outboard phono stage (I think - Linto??).

The only LP12 I've heard that I'd even consider using at home is the one in Audio-T Reading, when it had a lush Aro and (I think) Dynavector on it.

I guess we must listen to music very differently, but even with the knackered K5 cart on the Planar 3 when I heard it, the Linn sounded like a battered 78 gramaphone on non-pristine vinyl, whilst the Planar 3 sounded excellent.

Considering the Rega was approximately a tenth of the LP12 in cost terms at full price, that kind of clinched my opinion!

__________________________
Don't wanna be cremated or buried in a grave
Just dump me in a plastic bag and leave me on the pavement
A tribute to your modern world, your great society
I'm just another victim of your highrise fantasy!

Domfjbrown!if an lp12 is not knackered and well set it was always a dynamic,
grooving,fast(and not dull or "tired")performance.of course lp12 is very sensible to
its underground. what i prefer is that i think
presentation of a rega turntable is more dry,
or less tonalcouloured.Dynamicwise should be
rega 9 the real competitor of linn lp12.
p3 with rb300 is not as dynamic as lp12/ ekos.
O.J.

Posted on: 14 April 2004 by Simon Matthews

Thirded. This is one occasion when 'IMO' isn't necessary. The upgrade through from a rega3 to a basic lp12 with no PS/basic arm/cheap mc cartridge was one of the most clear and readily demonstatable upgrades I ever heard.

Having owned a p2, a p3 and various lp12's I will once again state that it is gobsmaking that anybody can come to the conclusion that the p3 is the superior turntable. The LP12 offers sooooo much more information, and offers it in such a cohesive manner which the rega falls short of by a MASSIVE margin.

This is an unfortunate time for vinyl - where a lot of b......t, misinformation and incorrect ideas can gain acceptance without dispute.

Posted on: 14 April 2004 by o.j.

quote:
Originally posted by DerekM:
Anyone who thinks a Planar 3 is better than a full spec. LP-12 has zero credibility in my book. This is just so far off the mark as to be laughable.

The Planar 3 is a very good turntable and I owned one for many years. But an LP-12 is far, far superior.

Hi-Fi is an area that invites a wide range of opinions, but ridiculous comments are just that, ridiculous.

As said before:we talk about mechanical turntable and arm.I am
be intrested to know what is superior on linn turntable concept to rega concept? Only to things are sure:regas concept is more simple
than lp12 and rega performance is always the
same.(never heared two same sounding lp12)and
as Alberich said:an rega planar3 can keep a
beat,and a p3 can keep it better.
O.J.

Posted on: 14 April 2004 by o.j.

quote:
Originally posted by Simon Matthews:
Thirded. This is one occasion when 'IMO' isn't necessary. The upgrade through from a rega3 to a basic lp12 with no PS/basic arm/cheap mc cartridge was one of the most clear and readily demonstatable upgrades I ever heard.

Having owned a p2, a p3 and various lp12's I will once again state that it is gobsmaking that anybody can come to the conclusion that the p3 is the superior turntable. The LP12 offers sooooo much more information, and offers it in such a cohesive manner which the rega falls short of by a MASSIVE margin.

This is an unfortunate time for vinyl - where a lot of b......t, misinformation and incorrect ideas can gain acceptance without dispute.

Hy simon! and for sure a lp12
is better than a rp 9 !?
Read my posts in this thread and you will notice that i said i prefer the rega presentation and i did not loose any word until now about
price/worth but i think now the discussion will drift in that direction.

O.J.

Posted on: 14 April 2004 by Gram Parsons

I have owned a Rega P3, a Wilson Benesch Circle/Act0.5 and a Kuzma Stabi S/StogiS combination.
Now I have a LP12/AkitoII/Adikt with Valhalla Power Supply on an Ikea Axamo table - and this combination is sooooo musical and outperforms in my opninion the upper ones.
Ciao

Posted on: 14 April 2004 by o.j.

quote:
Originally posted by Gram Parsons:
I have owned a Rega P3, a Wilson Benesch Circle/Act0.5 and a Kuzma Stabi S/StogiS combination.
Now I have a LP12/AkitoII/Adikt with Valhalla Power Supply on an Ikea Axamo table - and this combination is sooooo musical and outperforms in my opninion the upper ones.
Ciao

Hy Gram!agree with you about kuzma(can not comment wilson benesch)

Posted on: 14 April 2004 by analogue kid

In answer to the original question the answer is yes.
I bought my LP12 in 1984 and still have the original Aframosia plinth to this day. Everything else has changed, Lingo 1, Cirkus, trampolin. Ittok replaced with Ekos and my original K9 has gone through Karma, Troika Akriv 1 to my new Akiva. In February the LP12 was serviced for the first time in 12 years and according to my dealer it just needed slight adjustment.
In my opinion, it has outperformed other turntables I have heard of lesser quality by a huge margin. I cannot comment against some of the more illustrious ones that have been mentioned, but then again I have never wanted another turntable.
Partnered with Naim amps my system has PRaT

Music is Analogue (Linn) and always will be

Posted on: 15 April 2004 by domfjbrown

quote:
Originally posted by DerekM:
Anyone who thinks a Planar 3 is better than a full spec. LP-12 has zero credibility in my book. This is just so far off the mark as to be laughable.

Oh well, I guess I have zero cred then. IMO the Planar 3 did things for me that the Linn (in that particular case) couldn't.

I don't think the Linn provides good VFM at all - a Michell or similar gives a similar quality at a much lower price IMO. Plus the suspension system on a Michell is better.

If I wanted a bouncy castle to listen to records on, I'd hire one and stick my Rega on that...

Sorry guys, but if everyone agreed the world would be boring wouldn't it?

__________________________
Don't wanna be cremated or buried in a grave
Just dump me in a plastic bag and leave me on the pavement
A tribute to your modern world, your great society
I'm just another victim of your highrise fantasy!

Posted on: 15 April 2004 by Arye_Gur

domfjbrown,

Do you know the Michell Focus One?

Arye