Turntable to rival a CDX2?

Hawk,

Tom has captured it all in a nutshell.

Go to your dealer and find out about Rega and Linn turntables.

For the same price as a cds2/xps2 you will get a MUCH better musical experience off one of these turntables

Conversley it will cost you a lot less to get a similar musical experience (it will never be the same) off one of these turntables.

There might be other turntables worth considering, butI haven't heard them.

Cheers

Don

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Originally posted by Tom Alves:
All for less than £700. If you want to trample all over the CD player the P9 (£2300) or Linn LP12 (£6000) are worth a look. Secondhand LP12s go for £600-£1100 depending on arm etc.

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Gotta go CDS3 to get closer to the sound of LP12. I never thought CDX2/XPS2 sounded like LP12.

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Basically turntables are a lot cheaper than CD players.

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You can say that again.

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Originally posted by James:
OK.

Basically turntables are a lot cheaper than CD players.

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Well,...I've tried a new P3 next to my CDX recently. The P3 (with Grado Green) sounded awful in comparison.
Even my s/h cheap Rotel RT935 tuner sounded way better than the P3.
Ok, I agree that the Grado Green is a budget cart, but I did expect a little more than what I've heard.

I guess a P25 won't come close to a CDX2/XPS either.
So,...Hawk, I'm afraid you'll have to spent some serious cash on a TT to get to the same level of higher than you CDX2/XPS.
Ok, not as much, but still...

regards,
Alco

Turntables do things that CD player don't and vice versa. Some good, some bad. In the good side for LP reproduction I put naturalness and fluidity, ease of listening. For CD players, I put pitch stability and precision. Assuming a high quality Turntable you get better harmonic presentation.

I have a CDX and a Garrard 401. I like them both, for the most part LP issues of recordings sound better than CD, but I have many fine sounding CDs that I'll never be able to find on LP. Whereas I only have a few LPs that I couldn't find on CD.

I feel that an LP12 does not have the necessary pitch stability to match a CDX, I just cannot get on with the Linn, but I know I'm in a minority about this. I would suggest looking at Nottingham Analogue.

Peter

User34 at Laposte dot net

Hock,

I've recently discovered in my LP collection, a number of LPs some of which I've had more than 20 years that are pressed off centre. I just can't tolerate that any more. For me that's a CD players greatest virtue pitch stability.

It's true that my 401 will not always be pitch accurate, but I can fine adjust the speed with the power supply and get it accurate.

I think the Linn imposes it's on rhythmic foot print on music.

Peter

User34 at Laposte dot net

Ah but the turntable is less than half the story!

Surely it's in the cartridge and how much you pay for that that the differences are most?

I have a humble Project RPM 4 with a Sumiko Blackbird cartridge which I installed as an upgrade from the supplied Grado MM (low cost).

It was an eyeopener for me and I now feel I get "better" than a Bare CDX2 out of my vinyl in some areas. It is not possible to directly compare since as discussed the sound from Vinyl is significantly different from the CDP. There is a lot more "air" and feeling of dynamics in the Vinyl whereas the CDX2 portrays depth and weight more effectively. Both sounds are attractive in their own way.

Of course the decision involved in CD replay is just about buying the right CDP. For Vinyl it is more complex. There are so many cartridges and phono amps and power supplies and arms etc to choose from as well as the basic deck. That you will end up with a highly indivdual sound and could spend a lot experimenting in all these ways, is a probability.

So the straight forward starting price is not really the price you may end up paying for a Vinyl source.

However my project rpm and cartridge together w. stageline came in at just under 1200 GBP. Compared with 2300 GBP for a bare CDX2 that is a bargain.

I will be interested to see how it stands up when the XPS2 gets plugged in later this week.

regards
GEOFF

quote:

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Originally posted by Geoff P:
Ah but the turntable is less than half the story!

Surely it's in the cartridge and how much you pay for that that the differences are most?

I have a humble Project RPM 4 with a Sumiko Blackbird cartridge which I installed as an upgrade from the supplied Grado MM (low cost).

It was an eyeopener for me and I now feel I get "better" than a Bare CDX2 out of my vinyl in some areas. It is not possible to directly compare since as discussed the sound from Vinyl is significantly different from the CDP. There is a lot more "air" and feeling of dynamics in the Vinyl whereas the CDX2 portrays depth and weight more effectively. Both sounds are attractive in their own way.

Of course the decision involved in CD replay is just about buying the right CDP. For Vinyl it is more complex. There are so many cartridges and phono amps and power supplies and arms etc to choose from as well as the basic deck. That you will end up with a highly indivdual sound and could spend a lot experimenting in all these ways, is a probability.

So the straight forward starting price is not really the price you may end up paying for a Vinyl source.

However my project rpm and cartridge together w. stageline came in at just under 1200 GBP. Compared with 2300 GBP for a bare CDX2 that is a bargain.

I will be interested to see how it stands up when the XPS2 gets plugged in later this week.

regards
GEOFF

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Hy Geoff!Mechanical also important
where to put your turntable.Rega has the wallshellf,Lp12 trampolin,or ikea,or.....?
My new p3 never looses pitch,also project did not.Lp12 also does not.Better arms and cartridges
and phonostages are able to play vinyl as precise as cd players.( the more wooly sound
of turntables will not be there in higher classes.)

I did compare xerxes artemiz shiraz 10 with fm122vs.wadia 270 and clocklinked transport.
nearby same performance but wadia costs
alot more.Imo there are limits in turntable
prices,because it is only simple mechanical
know how inside.Electronic innovation is a lot more expensive.(but no expensive mechanics)
O.J.

and transport nearby same performance

My P9 (arrived yesterday ) sounds very very good. Grin-inducingly good. In the same way that the CDX did for me a few years back. But this is way better than CDX + XPS. And this is coming from an LP12, Armageddon/ Aro / XX1... which I thought was snapping at the heels of my CDX.

Thank you all for some very interesting replies! Dont you just love it when youve opened yourself a can of worms!! of the nicest variety of course.. If im reading things in the right context a good arm and cartridge are the top priorities? Also there is a choice between MM and MC...? I plan to probably start off with a trusted Naim Stageline (unless i get drowned with strong recommendations otherewise) so what would be the recomendation MM or MC and what are the pros and cons. Overall budget is going to based on best value upto about £1000 to include phono stage. Quite happy to buy some new bits but some secondhand in case my experiment goes horribly wrong is probably sensible... The rest of the system is 282/Hicap/250-2/Living Voice Avatars all living on Q4 Rack

Thanks again and regards

Hawk

An old Dual CS505 should do it.

Pitch stability and timing stability

Odly enough I notice that my Genki offers a better locking of rythmns than my LP12/Lingo2/Ekos/Klyde.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Linn Binn Sinner

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Originally posted by Andrew Randle:
Pitch stability and timing stability

Odly enough I notice that my Genki offers a better locking of rythmns than my LP12/Lingo2/Ekos/Klyde.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Linn Binn Sinner

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Andrew,

I completely agree. I've thought for a while now that rhythmically my CDS2/XPS2 is better than my LP12/Aro/SPU. The Linn is more open all round, and a bit kinder on the ears, and it's colourations are nicer on the ears, but in terms of the pace and excitment and musical coherence the CD plauer has it IMHO.

Dev

Yep, too many people think the LP12 is the ONLY turntable out there.

I couldn't get on with its sliouuughly but veeery wooooouuuurrrrrbly sound either... Neither did my mate who bought said LP12 - he moved over to an Orbe and never looked back.

My P3/Ortofon 540 pees all over my CD5/Flatcap from a very great height; I'd imagine it would be a little bit better than a CDX too... And it seems to be more stable than my mate's old LP12 too, which is one thing I couldn't get my head round...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Andrew Randle:
Pitch stability and timing stability

Odly enough I notice that my Genki offers a better locking of rythmns than my LP12/Lingo2/Ekos/Klyde.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Linn Binn Sinner

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Andrew!there must be
something wrong with your lp12.Did yesterday the comparision and lp12 was far ahead of genki
(with new akiva and linto)
O.J.

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Originally posted by domfjbrown:
My P3/Ortofon 540 pees all over my CD5/Flatcap from a very great height; I'd imagine it would be a little bit better than a CDX too...

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One of the most unknown facts about CD players is their sensibility to the quality of the mains. When I installed my separate spurs for the Hifi, I was utterly gobsmacked by the imprvement to CD replay. It really was a dramatic improvement. Now, in my rig I can get nearly equal performance from the CD and Lp players. Usually what will tip the scales one way or another is the quality of the recording. Given the same recording, and assuming the same source tape, then LP is the more enjoyable experience, but there are not any absolutes as i once thought before I installed the mais spur.

Peter

User34 at Laposte dot net

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My P3/Ortofon 540 pees all over my CD5/Flatcap

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I sort of agree, Dom; my P3/Super Elys doesn't pee all over the cd5/fc2 but does sound better in a different kind of way - I think its probably down to the analogue v digital sounds . The P3 is just that bit richer but not as detailed or dynamic. If I upgrade I'm either going up the Rega ladder or over to Michell. BTW. what phono do you use? I'm on a Rega fono, which gives no cause for complaint but I do wondwer whether a different phono stage would improve things.

Kevin

And of course a P3 on Mana will absolutely thrash anything else not on Mana

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Originally posted by PR:
Peter

"LP is the more enjoyable experience"

That pretty much sums it up

Comparing the medium's in their performance is quite impossible, without knowing the recording production from beginning to end.

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Indeed!the difference between an vinyl and a cd both out of an old analog tape in production process is analog to digital converting before burning the cd.Hand in hand
goes later on (in reproduction)the reconverting
of your cd player. so the analog cutting a n d
reproducing of vinyl is the equivalent toA/d a n d D/A converting.theoretical a turntable without fault will give more information.
but digital processors of today come quite close.and turntables(or better turntable,arm,cartridge,phonostage systems)are today hardly nearer to(faultfree) perfection than 20 years ago.
O.J.