hated expressions

Well-said, Joe. I'm sure many - perhaps most - of these kids have learned correct grammar, spelling etc - but choose to use the "dumbed down" variety for the same reason you do: convenience.

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I trust that you appreciate the difference, and will refrain from making any further patronising remarks.

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As I said, I don't see much difference, and in fact I find the idea that you are allowed to "dumb down" your language - because you do it intentionally - while these kids are not - because you assume that they know no better - is far more patronising than anything I have said. And you can trust in anything you like, I still reserve the right to point out a silly comment, patronising or not.

Ross

PS The term "dumbed down" is another one of those expressions I personally can't stand - it is a good example of the phenomenon it describes.

A "kid" is a baby goat.

John

Hi,
IMO the engilsh language continues to evolve over the years, with the addition of acceptable words/phrases that some time before were unacceptable.

So it's difficult to judge because it's always changing...

andy c!

Joe said "Mr. Robinson, of course, is exempt from such criticism since his inventive spelling adds to his charm"

I actually have a special interlekshual imewnity. Sort of like James Joyce.

Ross said "I'm sure many - perhaps most - of these kids have learned correct grammar, spelling etc - but choose to use the "dumbed down" variety for the same reason you do: convenience"

And I suspect children tend to follow the example of adults...

BTW ALthough grammar and punctuation was not taught for many years in English schools although it's back on the national curriculum again now.

Andy c! said "So it's difficult to judge because it's always changing..."

Although I am fairly sure that using the exclamation mark as part of your name is not strictly speaking allowed.

Trevor said 'but 'moither' - meaning "annoy/bother"'

mither is a fabulous word that is wonderfully poetic and loaded with meaning and subtlties. It was also used in the title of a Fall song ("CNC's Mithering") and if it's good enough for Mark E. Smith....

Matthew

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but especially
'IMHO'
even without the text, anyone who says "in my humble opinion" is patently someone whose opinion needn't be heeded at all, as he's a pinheaded w*nker anyway.

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It gets you off the hook for libel if I am correct.

"Faithful Tune amps are a pile of shite" could land you in court,

but "Faithful Tune amps are a pile of shite (IMHO)" won't, because by acknowledging the statement as your own opinion it is no longer libellous.

We are headed for a disaster.

What is wrong with using the present progressive

we are heading for a disaster?



Regards,

Steve.

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"Faithful Tune amps are a pile of shite" could land you in court,

but "Faithful Tune amps are a pile of shite (IMHO)" won't, because by acknowledging the statement as your own opinion it is no longer libellous.

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Nonsense. "Steven Toy is a child molester (IMHO)" is just as defamatory as "Steven Toy is a child molester" and either could be used as the basis for a successful defamation action.

Ross

naim phrases that drive you nuts...

1) Buy the 552, "YOU KNOW IT MAKES SENSE"

You learn something new everyday.

P

"Not a lot of people know this"

joe,

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What's the difference in practice? Whether you adopt unconventional spelling, punctuation, grammar or syntax out of ignorance or convenience, the result is the same -- moronification of the language.

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with respect, I think you're being pernickety for the sake of an argument.
whilst you are correct, technically, I think the point I was making was obvious.
therefore I have no intention of repeating myself.
besides, you guys from over the pond are renowned for your phonetic use of english.
I guess that's why you don't have a problem with text lingo!

ross,

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..in fact I find the idea that you are allowed to "dumb down" your language - because you do it intentionally - while these kids are not - because you assume that they know no better..

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I'm not assuming anything.
I judge by the evidence I see with my own eyes, and from the experience of knowing kids who come under the category I mentioned.

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..is far more patronising than anything I have said.

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in your opinion.

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And you can trust in anything you like, I still reserve the right to point out a silly comment, patronising or not.

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equally, I reserve the right to point out pedantic remarks, especially when I feel they're a prelude to an argument.
have a nice day.

TN

"Faithful Tune amps" has just joined my list.

-- Ian

Australians who say Darter not Data.

Howard

"equally, I reserve the right to point out pedantic remarks, especially when I feel they're a prelude to an argument"

Ross was not being pedantic but was pointing out basic errors. Grammatic pedantry requires the respondent to make more subtle and precise corrections to meanings and usages.

Matthew

matthew.
like I said before, this is an internet forum - not an english exam.
if it was, I'd be pointing out that you should have written "grammatical pedantry".

TN

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this is an internet forum - not an english exam.

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And that's a good thing, Trevor, because you'd fail. Now what was that you were saying about literacy?

Ross

<big yawn>

Trevor,

The point of studying English and taking exams is so that when you communicate with other people you know how to do so clearly and accurately. You are then meant to use these skills when communicating with people: not cast them aside.

Anyway if you are not going to use correct English when criticising other people's English when are you going to use it?

Matthew

PS Devon is far too civilised and educated for people in the habit of using poor English. I'm surprised you are not asked politely by the local council to move to somewhere more uncouth like parts of North Wales?

thanks for the lecture, matthew.
I'll give what you said the consideration it deserves.

TN

Hey, there's a sentence that commences with a capital letter! You've obviously given Matthew's lecture some serious consideration. Well done, Trevor!

Ross

ross.
you're not paying attention.
I always put I in capitals.
just because I like to.
if you can't keep up, best give up.

TN

Another sentence that starts with a capital! Two in two posts - excellent! You're really getting the hang of this, Trevor. If you keep up this progress, soon you may even be qualified to criticise young people for their misuse of grammar.

Ross

Actually Trevor's last post was written in an obscure experimental form of free verse and the capitalised I, full stops and commas were all typos.

Matthew

drat, matthew's got it sussed.
you're right - as always.

TN

All bad poetry is sincere

Trevor,

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besides, you guys from over the pond are renowned for your phonetic use of english.

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You mean Canadians? On the whole, no. We have adopted some American spelling conventions, but Canadians spell mostly the same way the British do. My Canadian Oxford English Dictionary is filled with all sorts of non-phonetic spelling, or, in other words, British English -- words like theatre, centre and litre. But we have adopted American spelling for distinctly quaint British English, words like tyre, kerb and gaol.

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I guess that's why you don't have a problem with text lingo!

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I do have a problem with text lingo. That's the point of my post.

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with respect, I think you're being pernickety for the sake of an argument.

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I'm not looking for an argument. It really doesn't matter to me how you spell or punctuate, or whether you like your infinitives together or split seven ways to Sunday. It's just a tad disingenuous to use bad English to complain about, umm, bad English. (It reminds me a bit of a former professor of mine, the quintessentially British Dr. Locke, who spent an hour berating students for their lack of brevity in essays.)

Joe