To all classical music fans: It's time to explore the new and unknown.

Posted by: Todd A on 16 January 2001

Any other fans of out of the way repertoire out there? Come on, I know there are at least a few. If so, I propose the following: go forth and buy a disc (or even used LP) of unusual repertoire and then report your findings in this thread. And do so on a regular basis.

By unusual I mean either works by secondary or even unknown composers, or lesser-known works by major composers. Beethoven’s symphonies would not be considered unusual whereas Max Reger’s string quartets would be, for instance.

And by “on a regular basis” I mean every few weeks, or every month or so. Come on, you know you want to. And with Naxos and Arte Nova out there, it doesn’t even need to be expensive. $5 -$6 US a month? A good cigar costs significantly more than that.

To show that I’m a good sport, I’ll go first. My disc is Chamber Music by Alan Rawsthorne on Naxos (forgot the catalog number). Is it good? Yes. There are five works on the disc ranging from the banal to the excellent. The Piano Trio and Melody for Violin and Piano are good if somewhat mundane. Certainly, I can think of worse things to listen to (Wagner, for instance). Moving up in quality, the Piano Quintet and Cello Sonata are both quite good - bordering on excellent, in fact - if not the pinnacle of their respective forms. The Viola Sonata, however, is truly excellent and makes for compelling listening. It makes the disc. Why has this piece not been recorded more often? Beats me. I’m hoping that Kim Kashkashian takes it up. Overall, I’d rate the disc a “buy” for fans of 20th Century chamber music. Were I to rate it on a 100 point scale, I might give it a 75 (a 95 for the Viola Sonata).

Anyway, there it is. I will post additional discs intermittently. Please join me in exploring the unknown. Or at least little known.

Posted on: 09 January 2002 by Rainer S
Sure, Herm, the Walton also belongs to the "big" viola concertos, and is a beautiful piece. Fits nicely into this thread! I have the Kennedy recording and it is very good. I'm sure the Bashmet is great, also.

I know the Bruch double concerto, but only with clarinet and viola. Didn't know there is also a violin/viola version!

As to my viola playing, I did study it seriously, but am not now pursuing it as a career. I love playing chamber music and play in several amateur orchestras, though. Call me a "dilettante", in the positive sense of the word (at least I hope so...)! razz

Posted on: 09 January 2002 by herm
bruch double concerto

So it's actually a clarinet / viola cto? I did not know that. That's about the most attractive, romantic combo of instruments (cf Mozart's Kegelstadt trio)!

I gotta have this. razz

Though I bet there's about zero recordings of this piece?

Herm

Posted on: 09 January 2002 by stephenjohn
I recently bought Shostakovich's Viola Sonata [Kalichstein, Laredo on Arabesque]. It is his last work and very beautiful. The CD was a bargain, 2CDs containing both piano trios and the cello and violin sonataa for £11.99. However the piano trio is awful when compared to Leoneskya and the Borodin. It makes me wonder whether there are better recordins of the Viola Sonata out there. Does anybody know?
Posted on: 09 January 2002 by herm
shostakovich's swan song

Well, yes, I think there are a couple of interesting recordings around.

There's, obviously Yuri Bashmet with Michael Muntian, in a coupling with Glinka on RCA. Bashmet has this tremendous deep & dark sound.

The other one, perhaps my preference, is Shlomo Mintz and Postnikova, unusually well recorded on Erato. It's a marginally more implicit version, with less drama on its sleeve. That's why I like it better. Also the coupling with the sibling Shostakovich Violin Sonata makes it pretty much unbeatable.

Anyone else any preferences for this haunting work?

Herm

Posted on: 10 January 2002 by stephenjohn
Hi Herm
I've tried to locate both of the recordings you recomend on Amazon, Crotchet, and HMV web sites and none of them can find them. Could these recordings have been deleted?
Stephenjohn
Posted on: 10 January 2002 by herm
to be or not to be deleted

Well, Stephenjohn, I guess you're right. I checked at Tower and both the Mintz (Erato) and the Bashmet (RCA) appear to have been deleted. I'm sorry.

You may or may not have noticed, but this is pretty depressing music, after all. eek

In case you want to persist in your swan song pursuit, you could check stores that sell remainders (in fact I go there a lot). These are major labels; these issues don't just disappear.

And perhaps other forum members have other recommendations. There's this brunette violist Tabea Zimmermann on EMI who may have recorded this piece. However, no company is faster at deleting than EMI.

It's tough. confused

Good luck

Herm

Posted on: 11 January 2002 by stephenjohn
Hi Herm
Thanks again.

I disagree that it's depressing music. I think there is a quiet acceptance in the final movement and a paying of debts [to Beethoven] which is somewhat more restful than much of Shostakvich's than earlier angst and rage

Steve [Stephenjohn was the only user name I could get the site to accept]

Posted on: 22 January 2002 by Todd A
I picked up another Walter Piston CD, this time a Delos disc containing the 4th Symphony, the Capriccio for Harp and String Orchestra, Sernata, and Three New England Sketches, all led by Gerard Schwarz. Surprisingly, the symphony was somewhat of a let down. Aside from an excellent slow movement - called Contemplativo here - the work was sort of boring. Likewise the Capriccio. The last two works on the disc, however, are worth some repeated listens. The Serenata is good and brisk, and the Sketches are especially nice. I think I shall listen to these some more. The sound quality is beyond criticism.
Posted on: 22 January 2002 by herm
Janacek On an Overgrown Path

Together with the Emerson recording of the Shostakovich String Quartets I got a disk with piano music by Leos Janacek, played by Andras Schiff. It's on ECM (New Series). (ECM 1736)

The program comprises "In the Mist," "Piano Sonata, 1 X 1905," "On an Overgrown Path," and "A Recollection."

I got the disk because of the Overgrown Path piece. It's a fascinating piece, especially if you've ever seen the choreography Jiri Kylian made to this music for the Netherlands Dance Theater (back in 1980). It's a piece for, say, twelve dancers, the set is two huge square panels forming the backdrop and there's a black rift in between. Nothingness. During the piece one of the dancers develops an attraction to the black rift, and then suddenly she's gone. Some people don’t even notice but it's heartbreaking. (Janacek lost a daughter.)

As ever, Schiff's playing is absolutely right. He's recorded Mozart, Bach, Haydn (love that Teldec double disk) and there's a different sound every time, because they're different musical worlds. This is a gorgeous recording, and a total must-have.

Oh, and Steve, about Shostakovich' Viola Sonata, sure, you're right. It's not really depressing (how could it be one of my favorite pieces?), but admit it's dark and gloomy. I don't mind that.

Herm

Posted on: 22 January 2002 by Todd A
Thanks for the good word on the Schiff disc herm. I will probably have to be buying that one. I, too, love Schiff's playing and have his prior Janacek disc, which I do enjoy a great deal. (Oh that take on the violin sonata!) I definitely am interested in how he does the Piano Sonata, 1 X 1905.
Posted on: 22 January 2002 by herm
Schiff Janacek

Yes, Schiff is one of those low-profile artists that are going to be interesting for their entire life, don't you think so? I for one am curious what he's going to sound like when he's 75.

Oh, and by the way, Todd, if I may ask, how's the CDX getting along? What're you hearing that you weren't hearing (apart from Madonna? wink )

Herm

Posted on: 22 January 2002 by Todd A
Well, it's not that I'm necessarily hearing a lot more than with my CD3.5, it's more like I'm hearing a more controlled, more musical version of each CD. The 3.5 retrieves almost as much detail as the CDX, and it is almost as clear, but where the CDX really excels is in presenting a more cohesive, controlled sound.

For instance, I put on Riccardo Muti's recording of Scriabin's Poem of Ecstacy and the massive orchestral climaxes sound so much more controlled. With the 3.5 I heard a little glare and hardness, and with the CDX there was none. The dynamic range is astounding. This was confirmed when I listened to Pollini doing the Emperor. The tuttis were perfect; at no point did I feel like the sound was constricted. It was the first time I had that feeling. Ditto for Rachmaninov’s Symphonic Dances. The timpani strokes in the opening and closing of the work were presented with absolutely no compression, at least as far as the CD format will allow. And as for Daphnis et Chloe, well, let’s just say that now I know how it should sound – never having had the opportunity to hear it live. Don’t get me started on piano music – it almost sounded as though Evgeni Kissin gave a private recital, so startlingly clear and natural was the sound.

I will say that some of the "little" improvements include more, well, space (round-earth, I know, but what can I say). Each instrument seems more distinct than before in cases where solo passages are involved within the context of a large orchestral work. And one of the kickers on massed strings is that I can now easily hear the bowing in continuous passages. With the Emperor, I could the violins bowing back and forth whereas I could not before.

On the less august music I have listened to I can really hear the impact of the bass much better (who’d a thunk that my little VA Bachs could put out so much bass?) and everything just gels better. Sadly, my Zeppelin CDs were revealed even more than normal for the bad sounding discs they are – rolled off top end, mushy bass, boomy drums.

As for HDCD, well, I now know that I own at least two of them – both on Naxos: Samuel Jones’ Roundings and Charles Ives’ Second Symphony. Very impressive, indeed. (The Jones is better sounding.)

The last thing I must note is that the music was all presented in a more relaxed way – less Digititis, if you will – no doubt owing directly to the more controlled presentation.

Posted on: 22 January 2002 by herm
life since cdx (for the lucky guys)

well, I envy you. wink

Herm

Posted on: 30 January 2002 by herm
Toru Takemitsu again

I have no idea how or when I got to purchase the Peter Serkin disc with 20th Century piano miniatures ("The Ocean that has no West and no East") I talked about before. However it did get me hooked on the composer Toru Takemitsu.

So today I ran into another disc of Takemitsu pieces. It's called 'Rain Spell' and it's a collection of five different recordings of which 'Tree Line' (1988) is the best (so far). It's a 12 minute piece for the London Sinfonietta with major parts for oboe and clarinet. Conducted by Oliver Knussen (who composed a wonderful piano piece memorializing Takemitsu. It's on the Serkin collection).

Takemitsu is a natural heir to the Debussy - Messiaen line. (His dates are 1930 - 1996) Let's say he brings back Debussy's raptness, showing greater restraint than Messiaen, who straddles the kitsch-line too often to my taste. Ok, there's no way you're going to hear identifiable sonata-structures in Takemitsu, and sometimes it's a little mystical (but never as sacchirine as in Messiaen), but some of these pieces, especially from the eighties and nineties are ravishing.

The Serkin disc: Koch Int 7450
Rain Spell: HMV 5 73861 2 (budget price)

(A simple piece of advice would be: if either Knussen or Peter Serkin are involved, just get it.)

Posted on: 06 February 2002 by stephenjohn
Hi
Bartok's Sonatas for Violin andPiano No1 and Solo Violin Sonata, recorded by Faust on Harmonia Mundi. Wonderful, Wonderful, Wonderful. And a real bargain too.
Posted on: 07 February 2002 by herm
Bartok Solo Sonata

Hi Steve,

there's an intriguing bit of post-history attached to the Bartok solo sonata. For the 1964 Bath Festival Yehudi Menuhin commisioned the hot Royal Ballet choreographer Kenneth MacMillan to make a pas de deux to the Bartok.

The dancers were Margot Fonteyn and Rudolf Nureyev (who'd escaped to the West only a couple years back). They were about the hottest ballet duo imaginable at the time (even though in reality Fonteyn could have been Nureyev's mom).

So as they were choreographing / rehearsing on the last day before the performance news came that Fonteyn's husband had been shot in Panama.

They gave one single performance of the piece, Menuhin playing the violin, and after that it has never been done again. The piece is legend. There were no understudies, and dancers are a very superstitious race. There's a series, however, of wonderful photographs of the dancers in their glistening sylvan costumes that has never ceased to intrigue me.

Bye now

Herm

Posted on: 11 February 2002 by herm
Charles Wuorinen's Trampoline Trio

I think it was Steve (aka StephenJohn) who asked me to report on the Wuorinen Trios I had recently purchased.

The (Koch Int) disc comprises a bunch of Horn Trios (horn, vln, piano) and one straight violin, cello, piano Trio. All these compositions date from the early eighties, recorded in 1991.

I have 'studied' the straight piano trio, i.e. listened to it for a week regularly. It's very busy music; the material seems mostly piano-oriented, with a lot of fast drum-like figures.

[In the booklet Wuorinen explains (in an interview with Joan Peyser) he's kind of sceptical about the concept melody.]

Gradually, though, the trampoline character of the piece (10 minutes) emerges: so, first there's a full-fisted chord and the two string players sort of jump out of this with jittering figures, wheeling their arms, and then it's back to gravity again. And up again.

It ends with beautiful quiet flageolet tones and a deep dusky chord.

In a little while I'm moving on to the horn trios.

Anyone else heard interesting new music?

Herm

Posted on: 11 February 2002 by throbnorth
A youthful work by Saint-Saens, the only recording of which [a 1987 job, previously on Capriccio] has turned up on Laserlight [for £5.99 at Amazon]. With similar forces and the same soundworld as the Faure Requiem, I really cannot understand why this has not become a staple of the repertory and one of those things you hear so often that you turn the radio off at the first note. It really does have that 'Nessun Dorma' potential, - the sumptous Killer Tunes that Saint-Saens is so good at, exquisite combinations and contrasts of instruments and general French Fluffy Fabness. I can't vouch for the performance of its new coupling, Britten's 'A Ceremony of Carols' but it's cheap enough to risk for the Oratorio alone. I'm sure that one day we'll all be sick to death of it, so get in early and you'll be able to roll your eyes complacently when a middle aged Charlotte Church gives it the treatment. ['Oh, that old thing...']
Posted on: 11 February 2002 by stephenjohn
Hi Herm

It sounds 'unusual'. Was it cheep?

I've got stuck in the Bartok. Can't stop playing the Sonata for Violin and Piano. Every now and then I break out and listen to the Wispelway Bach. Only the first Suite up to now. The Cello sounds superb, but what is he tapping?
Steve

Posted on: 07 March 2002 by Todd A
I just bought my very first CD of music by William Walton and I must write that it was better than I expected. I bought the Naxos recording of the Viola Concerto, Second Symphony, and Johannesburg Overture. The Overture is dispensable, and the Viola Concerto is good if not especially impressive. (Just why is it a work on one of Gramophone's Classical 100?) The Second Symphony is very fine, indeed. No, it does not rank with the finest works by Beethoven or Bruckner or Mahler, but for what it is, I was happily surprised. I shall be buying more Walton.

I have some reservation about including a CD by Elliot Carter since I consider him a Great Composer, but since he doesn't sell gobs o' CDs, I'll include it. I recently bought a Nonesuch CD with his Piano Sonata, a couple songs, and ballet music entitled The Minotaur. Now here is a fine CD. The Sonata is "early" Carter and is quite accesible by his standards. Pity this work has not been recorded more often. Perhaps Pollini, his love of modern music being well-known, can be persuaded to record this work. The songs are interesting if forgettable. But The Minotaur, well, I am at a loss as to why this is not recorded more often. It is a fine ballet score, easily trumping Stravinsky's contemporaneous Orpheus. Oh, sure, it does not rise to the level of Stravinsky's major ballets (despite recent undue criticism of one of them) or Ravel's Daphnis et Chloe, but it is fine. The sound, from the early to late 80's is not the best available, but it is satisfactory. A very fine addition to my library, indeed!

Posted on: 19 March 2002 by Todd A
About a month ago I picked up the 3 disc set “Mutter Modern” on closeout at Berkshire and I must say that it was easily worth the paltry $18 I dropped. In addition to some core repertoire works – Bartok’s Second Violin Concerto, a masterful Berg Violin Concerto, and an exemplary Stravinsky Violin Concerto that stands alongside the Stravinsky directed version played by Isaac Stern – the set contains some less well known works. The first disc has a pair of works by Lutoslawski coupled to the outstanding Stravinsky. The composer directs from the podium to fine effect. The (rearranged) Partita and Chain 2 are, quite simply, superb works that deserve attention from all lovers of modern music. The Chain 2 is more substantial and is exceptional in just about every way. I have a small Lutoslawski collection, but on the strength of these pieces and another disc (see below), I think it is apparent I need more of his works.

The couplings for the Bartok and Berg pieces are, alas, not as successful. Norbert Moret’s En Reve occupies the remainder of the disc with Bartok’s sublime masterpiece. Perhaps because it follows such a cornerstone of the 20th Century repertoire it seems to suffer, but the work is not exactly essential listening. It is pleasant enough and surprisingly accessible for a modern work, but it does not enliven one’s listening space especially well. However, compared to Wolfgang Rihm’s miserable Time Chant it is a masterpiece. Time Chant is my first experience with Rihm, and sorry to report that I am not motivated to explore his other works as a result. The piece is not terrible, but it is terribly boring. It is SO slow and meandering and boring. I can deal quite nicely with slow pieces – I love Bruckner and Schubert’s late piano sonatas, not exactly swift works – but there must be compelling music to make it listenable. Did I mention the piece is boring? Were it not part of a set and coupled to Berg’s masterwork, I could do without this piece quite nicely. So, the Lutoslawski is the winner and the others are dispensable. I believe the original CD of the Stravinsky and Lutoslawski works is still available. It receives my highest possible recommendation.

Inspired by Mutter’s advocacy, I decided to explore more Lutoslawski, so I picked up Volume 6 of the on-going cycle of the Pole’s works on Naxos. A winner! Included are his First Symphony, the Chantefleurs et Chantefables, and some smaller works – the Silesian Triptych, Jeux venitiens, and the Postludium I. All are fine. The Symphony is very clearly influenced by Stravinsky, but since I am a Stravinsky fan I don’t find that a problem. He Chantefleurs and Triptych are both Song cycles and I actually enjoy them immensely, which is not too common for me. The other works are also exceptionally fine. All of the music is both astringent enough to be modern and poetic enough to be supremely enjoyable. Methinks I shall investigate more Lutoslawski. Soon.

When ordering other close-out items I accidentally receive a 1998 (!) disc of the complete music for cello and piano by Edvard Grieg and Frederick Delius played by Julian Lloyd-Weber and Bengt Forsberg on Philips. Not exactly deep, serious music, but, as you may have guessed, the music is beautiful and lyrical. Certainly a fine disc for weaker moments where unabashed, cholesterol-rich romanticism is needed. Or at least desired. If you can fond at $10 or less I would recommend buying it. I opted not to return it. (I paid five and a half bucks.)

What to make of the last disc of the batch? A while back I picked up the Naxos disc of some of Alan Rawsthorne’s chamber music and praised it highly. Upon several more listens, I enjoy the music rather more now than then. It really has grown on me. I thus decided to by the Gramophone award winning Naxos issue of the Symphonic Studies, Cello Concerto, and Oboe Concerto. Well, I can only write that I was somewhat surprised at the mediocrity of the disc. The Symphonic Studies that open the disc is the highlight. It is quite nice, with some attractive dissonance and string writing, but it is a second or third tier work at best. The Oboe Concerto is not worth a lengthy description. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz. The Cello Concerto is roughly equivalent to the Symphonic Studies in stature, but its ten extra minutes make to seem to drag at times. I’d rank this disc as worth the asking price and no more. No super bargain here. Still, given what Rawsthorne could write I may venture to buy some other Naxos discs of his music in the hope that he can write larger scale works.

Posted on: 09 April 2002 by Todd A
This time I tried some Arnold Bax and I liked it. I went cheap and bought the Naxos recording of the 5th symphony and the tone-poem "The Tale the Pine Trees Knew." The symphony is dedicated to Sibelius while the tone-poem is dedicated to John Barbirolli. Both should have been dedicated to Sibelius. If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, then Jean must have been flattered. The influence of the Finn is everywhere evident. Since I like Sibelius, that's fine with me. Second rank works, but nice. I will investigate more of his music.
Posted on: 10 April 2002 by stephenjohn
Recent Naxos Bax string quartet release [last autumn]. Grmophone editors choice. Very good. Very worth the price of a ...er...er... a Naxos CD
Steve
Posted on: 10 April 2002 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
I recently bought the Naxos Bax CD with the string quartets - not bad, but somehow I don't think it will bring lasting pleasure. The Vaughan Williams 1 and 2, with Phantasy Quintet is better though.

On a different topic - anyone catch the performance of George Crumb's Star Child last night. I'd not heard this before - a work for very very large and strangley placed forces. I was abit disappointed, not as way out a work as I expected, given the only other work I know which is Black Angels. Anyone heard any other of this guy's work?

David

Posted on: 10 April 2002 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
Nick,

I can assure you that Star Child was quite easy on the ear - I was even more surprised to hear that Boulez had conducted the first performance in the UK, which didn't go well and apparently dented Crumb's reputation badly.

Were you forced to listen to Birtwistle as a child, you sound somewhat prejudiced?

David