Beethoven's 9th
Posted by: Aric on 17 September 2004
I was hoping someone could point me to a particularly good cd of this piece. Thanks!
Cheers,
Aric
Mark Twain-
Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth.
Cheers,
Aric
Mark Twain-
Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth.
Posted on: 17 September 2004 by Cheese
I'll get shot - nevermind. I guess you are looking for a decent recording quality, that's why I'm leaving aside all Mengelbergs, Kleibers and Furtwänglers.
Oh and you could also give a listen to Karl Böhm's painfully slow but breathtaking 1981 recording. I'll get shot again.
Cheese
Oh and you could also give a listen to Karl Böhm's painfully slow but breathtaking 1981 recording. I'll get shot again.
Cheese
Posted on: 17 September 2004 by Aric
Thanks guys
I would prefer a good recording b/c the one problem I have with classical music is that I feel like I'm a 1000 rows back, sitting on a street outside the venue. Anyway, I appreciate your help and plan to go shopping tonight.
Cheers,
Aric
Mark Twain-
Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth.
I would prefer a good recording b/c the one problem I have with classical music is that I feel like I'm a 1000 rows back, sitting on a street outside the venue. Anyway, I appreciate your help and plan to go shopping tonight.
Cheers,
Aric
Mark Twain-
Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth.
Posted on: 17 September 2004 by Aric
I love this place: ask a question and you are inundated with knowledge
Thank you Fredrik for your thorough reply! Some of the recordings you speak of are old and I wonder if they are offered on cd? I suppose I would like to strike a balance between the quality of the recording and the quality of the musicians. Having said that, if you were stuck in a remote place and could only have one copy of Beethoven's 9th, which would you choose?
Cheers,
Aric
Mark Twain-
Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth.
Thank you Fredrik for your thorough reply! Some of the recordings you speak of are old and I wonder if they are offered on cd? I suppose I would like to strike a balance between the quality of the recording and the quality of the musicians. Having said that, if you were stuck in a remote place and could only have one copy of Beethoven's 9th, which would you choose?
Cheers,
Aric
Mark Twain-
Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth.
Posted on: 17 September 2004 by Jez Quigley
quote:
if you were stuck in a remote place and could only have _one_ copy of Beethoven's 9th, which would you choose?
I have nothing like Fredrik's depth of knowledge, but Beethoven's 9th is a particular favourite and I would go to the desert island with the EMI Klemperer.
Posted on: 18 September 2004 by Mike Hanson
If you're looking for a more recent recording, consider the Philippe Herreweghe conducting the Champs Elysees Orchestra (1999). It's not quite as fantastic as those older recordings, but it's quite respectable in its own right.
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
Posted on: 20 September 2004 by Aric
Hey Thanks everyone
You have all been a big help. Sometime here in the next few days I WILL get out to the music shop and pick up a copy...or maybe two.
Fredrik, I would love to trouble you for a copy if it's not too terribly much of a bother. Your knowledge on this matter is very extensive and I was wondering why recording engineers chose to go away from stereo recordings (for classical) to open mic recordings? What are the advantages/disadvantages?
Again, I really appreciate everyone's help.
Regards,
Aric
Mark Twain-
Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth.
You have all been a big help. Sometime here in the next few days I WILL get out to the music shop and pick up a copy...or maybe two.
Fredrik, I would love to trouble you for a copy if it's not too terribly much of a bother. Your knowledge on this matter is very extensive and I was wondering why recording engineers chose to go away from stereo recordings (for classical) to open mic recordings? What are the advantages/disadvantages?
Again, I really appreciate everyone's help.
Regards,
Aric
Mark Twain-
Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth.
Posted on: 20 September 2004 by bhazen
The DG version (late 60's?), Von Karajan w. Berlin Philharmonic. It was the one featured in "A Clockwork Orange", if that's any help.
Posted on: 21 September 2004 by Basil
quote:
[who said the Germans invented the tape recorder?]
quote:
In 1928 the German engineer Fritz Pfleumer demonstrated a magnetic recorder which recorded on magnetic tape consisting of paper tape coated with iron dust. AEG began manufacturing it, calling it the Magnetophon. The tape was manufactured by the company which later became BASF.
The Magnetophon was developed further and became successful (in a very limited market of professional users). It was used for broadcast purposes in Germany.
In 1941 there was a significant improvement. High frequency AC bias was used during the recording which greatly improved the sound quality. It seems to have been confined to Germany, probably because it was during the 2nd World War.
Meanwhile wire recorders continued to be developed.
During the war there seems to have been a situation that the USA had wire recorders, and Germany had tape recorders. Not surprisingly there was no collaboration between the two, in fact the technologies had military applications and would have been kept secret.
After the war, German Magnetophons were discovered in Germany. Major John T Mullin took two back to America, together with some tapes, and worked on them, making some improvements. Tape recorders based on the Magnetophon started being made in the USA. The 3M Coroporation introduced a plastic based tape as an option to existing paper tape.
The Ampex Corporation in America set the world standard tape width of 1/4 inch, and the tape speed of 30 inches per second (i.p.s.). Subsequent developments allowed lower tape speeds to be used, each one half the previous one. 15 and 7.5 i.p.s. were used for professional applications for many years until at least the 1970's. Quality tape recorders for home use used 7.5 and 3.75 i.p.s.
The modern tape recorder had arrived.
The Tape Recorder
Posted on: 21 September 2004 by Basil
Dear Fredrik,
The Blatnerphone was a development of the wire recorder.
Also, I'd be interested in your opinion of Karajan's 1947 recording of the Ninth with the Vienna Philharmonic and the 1955 with the Philharmonia.
Aric, Don't limit yourself to a single recording of this work.
The Blatnerphone was a development of the wire recorder.
quote:
Later Developments in Magnetic Recording
Lee de Forest tried to apply audio amplifiers using the audion to the Telegraphone but no practical system resulted.
In the early 1920s German inventor Curt Stille modified the Telegraphone to use electronic amplification. The intended application was for speech such as telephone recording and as a dictation machine.
There followed various developments to the wire recorder, such as the Dailygraph and Blattnerphone. The Blattnerphone used steel tape instead of wire. It was used to record radio programmes prior to broadcast.
Also, I'd be interested in your opinion of Karajan's 1947 recording of the Ninth with the Vienna Philharmonic and the 1955 with the Philharmonia.
Aric, Don't limit yourself to a single recording of this work.
Posted on: 22 September 2004 by Aric
Well, the Solti version is on its way.
It was free so...
Cheers,
Aric
Mark Twain-
Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth.
It was free so...
Cheers,
Aric
Mark Twain-
Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth.
Posted on: 23 September 2004 by cdboy
Before you plunge, try and hear the new Norrington on Hannsler. If it's to your taste after a sample it will provide tremendous insights.
Enjoy
Enjoy
Posted on: 27 September 2004 by tones
I'm late to this I know, but the two best I've heard are Karajan's, 1962 and 1977, both on DG and both now cheaply available. I have difficulty deciding which one (they both have their individual strengths), so I compromise by having both! I've heard many earlier version and many later versions, and many are excellent, but I always end up back with this duo. Karajan is often accused of glossy, superficial performances, and that is often true, but not here. Both have fire in their bellies and reach out and touch the sublime. All together now:
Freude, schöner Gotterfunken
Tochter aus Elysium...
Tones, the man with the golden ear trumpet
Freude, schöner Gotterfunken
Tochter aus Elysium...
Tones, the man with the golden ear trumpet
Posted on: 27 September 2004 by Madrid
Frederik:
Do you happen to know of any online distributor for Furtwangler in Lucerne? The Tahra website lists it (Furt1003) as deleted from its catalog, and I cannot find it on Amazon.co.uk either. To complicate matters, I´m in Spain (where Harmonic Mundi, the distributor for Tahra, does not offer it either).
Thanks,
Steven
Do you happen to know of any online distributor for Furtwangler in Lucerne? The Tahra website lists it (Furt1003) as deleted from its catalog, and I cannot find it on Amazon.co.uk either. To complicate matters, I´m in Spain (where Harmonic Mundi, the distributor for Tahra, does not offer it either).
Thanks,
Steven
Posted on: 28 September 2004 by Basil
Posted on: 28 September 2004 by headline
Try http://www.musicandarts.com/ for Tahra and LOTS of Furtwangler.
By the way, I'm partial to various "live" Beethoven 9's cond. Toscanini. Post with your e-mail address and we can chat?
Thanks and cheers.
By the way, I'm partial to various "live" Beethoven 9's cond. Toscanini. Post with your e-mail address and we can chat?
Thanks and cheers.
Posted on: 29 September 2004 by Madrid
Thanks, all.
I am pursuing all leads, though it now appears that the local paper (El Pais) is offering a Furtwangler 9th by Tahra (at Lucerne?) along with purchase of the newspaper.
Hancocks does list the 1954 Furtwangler performance at Lucerne, but it is on the Music and Arts label. Is this an inferior recording to the Tahra version?
BTW, what do you connoiseeurs dislike so much about the Karajan recordings of the 9th? Gramaphone, not to mention my mom, prefer the 1977 recording with the BPO to all others.
Cheers,
Steven
I am pursuing all leads, though it now appears that the local paper (El Pais) is offering a Furtwangler 9th by Tahra (at Lucerne?) along with purchase of the newspaper.
Hancocks does list the 1954 Furtwangler performance at Lucerne, but it is on the Music and Arts label. Is this an inferior recording to the Tahra version?
BTW, what do you connoiseeurs dislike so much about the Karajan recordings of the 9th? Gramaphone, not to mention my mom, prefer the 1977 recording with the BPO to all others.
Cheers,
Steven
Posted on: 29 September 2004 by Basil
I like the '77 Karajan, in fact I'd go as far as saying it's probably the best modern recording of the piece!
Posted on: 29 September 2004 by Basil
quote:
Some, like me, may find Karajan's reading (in any of its iterations) lacks in the department of spiritual rather than technical finesse
I have to admit, I find it incredible that you think this of all Karajan's recordings of the ninth.
Posted on: 29 September 2004 by --duncan--
quote:
Originally posted by Madrid:
... it now appears that the local paper (El Pais) is offering a Furtwangler 9th by Tahra (at Lucerne?) along with purchase of the newspaper.
Most impressed. The best we get here is the bloody Libertines
duncan
Email: djcritchley at hotmail.com
Posted on: 30 September 2004 by pe-zulu
Dear Fredrik Fiske
Thanks for your informative words about recordings of the Choral symphony.
I know that I am a little late too, but
your opinion about the so called historically informed interpretations, e.g. Norrington, Hogwood,Brüggen,Gardiner et.c. would be interesting to hear.
Venlig hilsen
Thanks for your informative words about recordings of the Choral symphony.
I know that I am a little late too, but
your opinion about the so called historically informed interpretations, e.g. Norrington, Hogwood,Brüggen,Gardiner et.c. would be interesting to hear.
Venlig hilsen
Posted on: 02 October 2004 by David Sutton
I have a number of recordings of this symphony including the Furtwangler and Karajan (multiple) versions. However, recently I have noticed that I return most frequently to Norrington and also Gardiner.
Hope this helps!!
David
Hope this helps!!
David
Posted on: 08 October 2004 by pe-zulu
The strange thing is, that I most frequently return to the piano arrangements made by Liszt, perhaps a sort of "pure" music, comparable to Beethovens piano sonatas?
Posted on: 12 October 2004 by Cheese
quote:
piano arrangements made by Liszt
Then I guess you don't mean Gould's version of the Pastorale. As much as I adore Glenn Gould, I have to admit this is probably one of the most dreadful musical assassinations ever recorded.
P.S.: please don't make this a Glenn Gould thread, there's another recent one about him. thanks.
quote:
I shall only be an infrequent visitor, on the Forum, here from now on. Never mind!
This is sad news for many of us, Fredrik, as your posts have always been packed with useful information and well-balanced, especially in the aforementioned controversial Glenn Gould thread... I sincerely hope you'll pay us a visit time and time again, especially when deep musical knowledge is needed. Thanks again.
[This message was edited by Cheese on Tue 12 October 2004 at 19:04.]
Posted on: 12 October 2004 by pe-zulu
Dear Fredrik Fiske
Fundamentally I think that every musician ought to be maximally historically informed, but none of the current "authentic" alternatives (e.g.Norrington,Gardiner) has got Klemperers musical stature, and I too have got much musical plasure from Klemperes Choral-symphony, a monumental recording of a monumental work.
What a pity with your PC-breakdown. It is people like you who make a forum like this interesting and valuable. I hope you will find a solution.
Venlig hilsen
Fundamentally I think that every musician ought to be maximally historically informed, but none of the current "authentic" alternatives (e.g.Norrington,Gardiner) has got Klemperers musical stature, and I too have got much musical plasure from Klemperes Choral-symphony, a monumental recording of a monumental work.
What a pity with your PC-breakdown. It is people like you who make a forum like this interesting and valuable. I hope you will find a solution.
Venlig hilsen
Posted on: 12 October 2004 by pe-zulu
Dear Cheese
I have read the recent Gould-thread,and agree entirely with Fredrik Fiske and RdS,and I have nothing to add. I have some time ago heard almost all the Bach and Beethoven, Gould recorded, but not his Beethoven/Liszt.
My preferred recording of Beethoven/Liszt is the Leslie Howard on Hyperion. Many find it cold, but I find it clear and unfussy.
The mixed set on French Harmonia Mundi is well worth the money, whereas Cyprien Catsaris on
Teldec is superficial. I have not yet heard Konstantin Scherbakov on Naxos (five of the symphonies until now).
But my total Beethoven-listening is rather small, because I am more intersted in music from older ages.
Venlig hilsen
I have read the recent Gould-thread,and agree entirely with Fredrik Fiske and RdS,and I have nothing to add. I have some time ago heard almost all the Bach and Beethoven, Gould recorded, but not his Beethoven/Liszt.
My preferred recording of Beethoven/Liszt is the Leslie Howard on Hyperion. Many find it cold, but I find it clear and unfussy.
The mixed set on French Harmonia Mundi is well worth the money, whereas Cyprien Catsaris on
Teldec is superficial. I have not yet heard Konstantin Scherbakov on Naxos (five of the symphonies until now).
But my total Beethoven-listening is rather small, because I am more intersted in music from older ages.
Venlig hilsen