Driving & mobile phones are driving me mad!

What they ought to do is make it illegal. Then the police could stop and fine arrest them.

Howard

The police haven't got the manpower to make a ban worthwhile. The new law here has made no diffence at all in Leicester.

Regards


NB

There is a dramitac fall in the number of cops on the road - i think anyway. I can remember 15 years ago seeing a number of them all day - I do about 1000 miles per week. I think they are either behind desks or operating speed cameras to ad to the stats in desperation.
Martin

Sadly its far more financially beneficial for the police (and their government masters) to spend their time catching evil-doers travelling at 33 in a 30 limit using speed-cameras.
Using actual policemen to impose proper driving standards in respect of 'driving with due care and attention' is far too demanding on scarce resources.

Long story this one so I'll keep it short...

On Saturday, Mrs S and I were at a local retail park. We were walking from our car to the shops when a young 'lady' bumped into Mrs S in her car. (It wasn't hard and fortunately Mrs S was not hurt). Mrs S had a go at the 'lady' who continued her conversation, Mrs S opened the door and argued with the 'lady' who told her where to go as she was on the phone to her boyfriend who is a policeman and she was trying to find him in the car park. Mrs S was incensed and told the young lady about the legality of her actions and said that she would be phoning the police about the incident.

We made a point of noting her number and went about our business. A few minutes later she returned with her boyfriend who confronted my wife. He waved his warrant card under her nose and asked her to step outside for a word. Mrs S held her ground and told him what she thought - that he was culpable too as he was involved in the conversation and he knew that she was driving. His attitude was arrogant and confrontational. He continued and said that Mrs S was in breach of the peace and had frightened his girlfriend and that his girlfriend had not broken the law as it was in a private car park. Mrs S insisted that as it was during opening hours it can be considered to be part of the highway.

Mrs S continued and requested that he gave her proper look at his warrant card so that she could note his number. We continued outside as the shop did not have what we wanted anyway and proceeded to the shop next door followed by the copper and his girlfriend. It was only after we had a note of his number that he changed his tone and said that they had only come over to apologise. The one word not heard throughout the whole encounter was 'sorry'.

We were left fuming. I kept out of it as much as I could otherwise there WOULD have been a breach of the peace! Mrs S is a formidable woman when roused. The young 'lady''s contribution to the conversation were a succession of swear words. Mrs S chastised her for swearing in front of kids.

We got home and Mrs S phoned the police to report the incident and complain about the officer's attitude.

A couple of hours later an nice lady inspector rang back and had a long conversation with Mrs S. She said that the officer had been gone straight in to the station to report the incident and they had admitted that his girlfriend had been driving whilst on the phone (obviously worried that Mrs S would report it - she almost wished she hadn't and just left him to stew for a while). The inspector was apologetic and asked whether we wanted to pursue the matter. Mrs S said that she didn't feel the need so long as the lesson has been learnt. She pointed out that she would need an independent witness and that the policeman would have been ideal as he was the other party to the telephone conversation. She also complained that the copper was condoning his girlfriend's action by continuing the conversation with her. The inspector said that the officer would be dealt with!

Post script...

It is not always the young at fault. Yesterday I was at the Chiswick roundabout trying to get round to the M4. The car in front of me was weaving about all over the place, crossing over between lanes and ending up straddling two when we were waiting for the traffic lights (the traffic was crawling at this point and it took a couple of minutes to get round the roundabout). I eventually managed to pass him once we were on the A4 (he was doing about 5mph at this point, obviously unable to change gear), when I looked over and saw that he was on his mobile. I hooted my horn and signalled for him to get off his phone. He was completely oblivious and carried on his conversation and driving at 5-10mph. He looked to be well over 60!

Thanks for reading...

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Then the police could stop and fine arrest them

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If there were enough staff. Also you need to have a look at what the police ar being targeted at. It isn't mobile phone usage - its drug related crime, dwelling burglary, violent crime etc etc etc

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Sadly its far more financially beneficial for the police (and their government masters) to spend their time catching evil-doers travelling at 33 in a 30 limit using speed-cameras.

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That may be so where you live, Dave, but its not so in Notts. Here they have civillian enforcement + cameras for speeding, and the cops that used to do it are too busy dealing with firearms incidents which, I'm sure you will agree, are more important.

You are right. Its all down to money. Pay for more cops, get better enforcement.

andy c!

People who use mobile phones whilst driving are ignorant, selfish scum.

Legislation won't stop these bastards. I hope that after the death toll rises to high enough levels, that the car industry will be forced to implement phone blocking technology to prevent in-car use (perhaps extend the area by 10000m either side of the car).

Brian OReilly

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Legislation won't stop these bastards. I hope that after the death toll rises to high enough levels, that the car industry will be forced to implement phone blocking technology to prevent in-car use (perhaps extend the area by 10000m either side of the car).

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as nice as this may be for most everyday use it isn't a good idea. Mobiles are useful in the car for break downs in remote places, accidents etc.

It's a hard issue to deal with because it does need police officers to enforce it and in most (all?) countries there simply not enough of them.

The last time I had a car it was a company car and had a hands free kit with it, but after trying that I still found that it distracted me more than talking to someone else in the car. Even though hands free kit are better than holding a mobile I don't think they are the solution. I would support a ban, but the problem as mentioned above is enforcement.

I'm surprised that Laurie Saunders hasn't chimed in to complain that the banning the use of mobiles when driving infringes personal liberties.



Stephen

Some of us need to be able to take calls whilst on the move. I use a Bluetooth hands-fee kit, and I'm used to it now to the extent that talking to someone on my phone has no greater impact on my levels of driving concentration than talking to a passenger.

If using a hands-free device distracts you sufficiently that you don't consider yourself safe at the wheel then I suggest that you shouldn't be driving at all.

Advocating a total ban on mobile phone use even with a hands-free device is but a pathetic projection of your own driving inadequacy.

All the anecdotes on this thread so far are concerned with hand-held mobile use at the wheel which is definitely dangerous.

I agree with current legislation.

Regards,

Steve.

Seagull

I am in complete awe of your restraint.

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Originally posted by Steve Toy:

If using a hands-free device distracts you sufficiently that you don't consider yourself safe at the wheel then I suggest that you shouldn't be driving at all.

Steve.

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I think more practically, you shouldn't use a hands free kit when driving. My brain seems to filter out the phone (and the radio/CD) in direct corelation to how much concentration is needed when driving. It's also not uncommon for me to ignore calls, or ask them to ring me back. It all depends on what's happening around you. Being disbarred from driving because you can't use a hands free kit is arse about face. Or am I stating the obvious?

Cheers

Harry

Two-Sheds,

If you have an accident or are in a remote place etc. you are unlikely to be driving at the same time as talking. Place your phone in the door etc. No excuse whatsoever I'm afraid.

As for Mr. Toy, I can't believe no-one has challenged such absurd nonsense.

Steve, your opinion on your concentration is an absolute irrelevance. The suggestion from the most recent police tests suggests that you are 3-4 times more likely to be part of, or cause, an accident even if using hands free bluetooth. Indeed I can see at least three bluetooth headset manufacturers whose web sites and instruction explicitly suggest that bluetooth is fine around the office/home but never in a vehicle.

One of my friends tried arguing the same and, to prove the point, decided to travel from London to Manchester and hold a conversation every half hour for ten minutes all the way here. His wife reported eight near misses to which he was completely oblivious. Sometimes he was too fast, sometimes he was too slow, sometimes he was just that - oblivious. Suffice to say he was somewhat contrite after getting here. He continued his last conversation right into our driveway and dented our garage because he didn't judge his stopping didtance correctly!!!

As for the argument that you have to be available whilst you are on the move. Frankly, that is utter rubbish. If you place any value on your life and that of others then let your phone ring and take a message then pull over and return the call.

Somehow, I doubt you will and one day people will die as a consequence and you probably won't even know it.

The convenience of a device does not excuse placing lives at stake.

Mike

It isn't just driving and mobiles that's the problem. People who just "can't live without them" are just as bad. Like in the pictures, in a nice restaurant having a quiet meal.

My mate takes one everywhere with him (even to his sisters wedding).

His excuss range from:

"What if my boss wants me?"
"What if my kid is ill when i'm in the pub having a chat"
"What if the missus needs me to pick something up on the way home from the pub"

All these what ifs ....What if you die on the way home from the pub rushing to get the milk.

The worst of them all though is when we are in the pub, just the two if us, his phone rings and he spends 20mins having a chat with his mate from work, completely ignoring me.

Or when I'm out and he rings me on the mobile (what I havn't got with me because I'm enjoying a day out or whatever) and he then goes on about what is the point of having a mobile and then not using it????

Mobile phones shoud be for YOUR convenience, not everyone elses.

We went to the local VI Form COllege open evening. All during the presentation by the Principal the person next to seagull junior was fiddling with her phone sending and receiving text messages.

Was she a prospective student? No, a parent. She was really indignant when Mrs S thanked her for being so rude for the previous 45 minutes.

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Originally posted by Steve Toy:
Advocating a total ban on mobile phone use even with a hands-free device is but a pathetic projection of your own driving inadequacy.

Steve.

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My own driving inadequacy ? HA HA HA Fall on floor laughing my ass off, splitting open my sides. I'm paid to carry out driving assignments that would make your eyes water.

Tell it to the next family who have their father or mother slaughtered by some phone user.

Even drunks pose less of a risk than car-phone users.

Brian OReilly

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If using a hands-free device distracts you sufficiently that you don't consider yourself safe at the wheel then I suggest that you shouldn't be driving at all.

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actually tests show that your reactions while talking on a phone are the same as after downing several pints in a hour.

The easiest way to stop people talking on the phone while driving would be for insurance companies to refuse insurance to anyone who causes an accident while on the phone.

It is not just motorists.

I nearly took out a random cyclist who pulled out a side road without a glance towards me and my motor, as he was gassing away on his mobile in one hand, and holding the handlebar with the other!

What can you do?

OTD - Studio 1 - Keep on Rockin'

*** All the views expressed within this e-mail are the sole responsibility of DS, or the other person in his head ***

I think the punishment needs to be more severe, make it as socially unacceptable as drink driving.

I don't see why you can't get a driving ban for 12 months, that'll make a lot people think twice about using them on the move.

I have noticed where I live that women tend to be the biggest culprits, I just wonder what other peoples observations are on this where they live.

Regards
Clive

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If using a hands-free device distracts you sufficiently that you don't consider yourself safe at the wheel then I suggest that you shouldn't be driving at all.

Advocating a total ban on mobile phone use even with a hands-free device is but a pathetic projection of your own driving inadequacy.

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I think recognising a danger and moving to eradicate it (i.e. not using a phone whilst driving at all) is far better than sitting there believing you are the worlds best driver until you happen to cause an accident.

A while back I saw a really bad program (on in uk around christmas time last year I think) that was supposed to examine how road accidents affected both parties (victims and the person causing the accident). It turned out to be a whole pile of rubbish of what ifs rather than examining anything. The only valid point to come out of it was that a lot of people regulrly do very dangerous things whilst driving and most of the time nothing happens so you equate this to being you are doing nothing dangerous.

For me I talked on the hands free kit with no incident for 6 months or so until I noticed I could have caused a few accidents so I stopped using the phone and as a result I think I'm a safer driver than before.

Have you ever recognised any fault in your driving Mr Toy? or are you the perfect (and always have been) driver?

I get the impression that a disproportional number of control freaks hung up on theoretical risks use this forum.

The calls I take to my Bluetooth are mostly short and along the lines of:

"10 o'clock? Outside Wetherspoons? Going to Wimblebury? No problem. About a tenner, ok? Right. See you. Bye."

With a passenger aboard my gut feeling (in the real world with real people) is that that the passenger would prefer me to take the call without pulling over. Many are impressed that I'm at least suitably equipped for the job.

The use of hand-held devices is reprehensible however.

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One of my friends tried arguing the same and, to prove the point, decided to travel from London to Manchester and hold a conversation every half hour for ten minutes all the way here. His wife reported eight near misses to which he was completely oblivious. Sometimes he was too fast, sometimes he was too slow, sometimes he was just that - oblivious. Suffice to say he was somewhat contrite after getting here. He continued his last conversation right into our driveway and dented our garage because he didn't judge his stopping didtance correctly!!!

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Sounds like he's utterly useless as a driver to me.

How would he cope with four twenty-something drunken lads on a Saturday night as passengers, or a woman with two screaming brats?

I also use a two-way radio system in the car. It's more my lifeblood than the phone, but I consider it to be more dangerous because I have to pick up a microphone, press a key to speak, then release. On a busy night I often have to repeat myself a number of times to the base operator who may have eight other drivers trying to talk to him, as well as the two phones ringing in the office.

The operating range of the two-way radio is also limited to approximately a 5-mile radius, depending on terrain, so if I'm on an out-of-district fare I'll often get a call to my mobile from Base along the lines of:

"Where are you now?"

"I should be dropping off in Stafford in about 2 minutes."

"Well I've got one over there that will bring you back..."

I suppose some of you would like to deny me (and all other taxi drivers) access to any in-car communication facilities, in which case I simply couldn't do my job.

Like with the hands-free mobile, all conversations should be kept short and to the point. You don't have an in-depth chat while negotiating a junction or overtaking a lorry, for example.

On approaching a (potential) hazard I tend to concentrate on the road and I may ask the person on the other end of the phone or radio to repeat what they've said once I've cleared the hazard.

BTW, my hands-free is set to auto-answer.

Also, I never listen to music in the car as I find it to be distracting. Music listening demands my fullest attention and for this reason I have bought into the Naim musical reproduction philosophy at home, if only at-source. I'm glad that Naim don't make in-car audio as it would be dangerous.

Regards,

Steve.

[This message was edited by Steve Toy on Tue 16 November 2004 at 4:56.]

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I have noticed where I live that women tend to be the biggest culprits, I just wonder what other peoples observations are on this where they live.

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I guess women are more likely to go into in-depth chats on their phones than men, who may simply use their phones for brief and pertinent exchanges of communication.

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I can see at least three bluetooth headset manufacturers whose web sites and instruction explicitly suggest that bluetooth is fine around the office/home but never in a vehicle.

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My guess here is that Bluetooth manufacturers are bracing themselves for any lawsuits in the event of an accident where the real blame will probably lie elsewhere...

Regards,

Steve.

Steve

As it is illegal now to use one's hands to take a mobile phone call when driving, what is the position re taxi drivers 2 way radios in the scenario you outline above.

No hidden agenda, just curious

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I get the impression that a disproportional number of control freaks hung up on theoretical risks use this forum.

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well driving while drunk is only a theoretical risk as well. It doesn't affect most people's driving ability at all (I'm presuming here that you're over the limit but no so drunk you don't know what day it is). What it does affect is your reaction times and that is where the danger lies. Now as that's only a theoretical risk - after all, how often does a child run in front of your car? - should we allow people to drive while drunk?

I must say I've been enjoying these glimpses into Steven's life as a taxi driver. It's the little details -- the roaring drunks, the embattled mother, the efficient resource management system implemented using multiple state-of-the-art comms systems -- that bring alive the world of taxidom and reckon any watching TV production company could do worse than look towards provincial town taxi firms for the next 'fly-on-the-wall' documentary. I'd call it "Going to Wimblebury?".

Matthew