Driving & mobile phones are driving me mad!

Hi Paul,
The only thing I'd add is that advanced police drivers are taught to commentate whislt driving, so as to be able to do so during pursuits and other spontaneous incidents. Doing commentary also lets the person on the other end of the radio know the driver knows what they are on about etc. Statndard police drivers are taught the same, but for differant reasons.

It does not excuse them from being prosecuted if that was the cause of the crash etc, tho.

regards

andy c!

'Commentating' isn't a problem, it's a manifestation of what you're doing, and one way at that. Communicating on other matters is what causes the problem, and for some reason it's much more distracting to use a phone than to talk directly to a passenger. Real life evidence actually backs this up, which is nice...

Paul

I once did a Defensive Driving Course given by a retired Police driving instructor.

He did the commentary thing - and he also got us to do it because in his view it taught one to take more notice of what was happening and likely to happen if you commentated to ones self

eg

The dustbins are at the street side today look out for the dustcart blocking the road with vehicles over taking it.

There are people at the bus stop - watch out a bus will be somewhere -

its 3pm the kids will be out on the road soon,

oh oh - a hummer up ahead - guess the US Marines are about - better get out of here pdq etc etc

Derek

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Ladies and gentlemen we present for your edification people who think that even one drink is okay whilst driving despite tons of empirical evidence (anyone remember evidence rather than opinion?) conclusively to the contrary

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really? Who said that?

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And what would you propose they do about it, then?
andy c!

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A minimum £250 fine and a serious penalty points dent in the license would be a good start. It might suggest that it was a law that was to be obeyed. A law that is not observed, or enforced, is a bad law.
It's always about risk. If the chances of being caught are low and the fine derisory. Then most will ignore it. Just as they do now.

Nime

A four point penalty would be appropriate IMO.

I would also suggest the same penalty should apply to people caught smoking, eating, shaving, applying make-up, reading maps, reading books etc. whilst driving. This would stop the "it's only aimed at mobile phone users" argument and get back to the real issue - safer driving.

I saw one of those AA driving school cars yesterday, the ones with "DRIVING EXCELLENCE" scrawled across the back. The driver - the only person in the car so presumably the instructor - was wearing headphones and appeared to be texting on his mobile. It scares me that this person is allowed to teach people to drive.

Me thinks you all miss the point - this is more hot air from Emperor Blair and his chums - £30, £60, £90,000 - who is going to police this?

Another soundbite, another day.

Mike

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posted Tue 30 November 04 19:54
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Ladies and gentlemen we present for your edification people who think that even one drink is okay whilst driving despite tons of empirical evidence (anyone remember evidence rather than opinion?) conclusively to the contrary

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really? Who said that?

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Ever get the feeling you're entering the twilight zone? Like you're making really obvious points where evidence is overwhelming, independently verified and international but you're dealing with someone who will argue black is white?

What could a rational human being possibly say in response?

The scary thing here is that whilst the government response on this is wrong-headed and insufficient it doesn't follow that they should not have acted at all, and, it has brought people out of the woodwork who

a) just don't want governments doing anything they happen to not like.

b) think that if they say something often enough it must be true.

c) will argue black is white etc.

and will miss the point that

a) there are people posting here who " people who think that even one drink is okay whilst driving despite tons of empirical evidence (anyone remember evidence rather than opinion?) conclusively to the contrary, and, people who think that anyone on a mobile can choose to not be distracted by their mobile and pay attention once again to the thing they should have been paying attention to in the first place!!!"

b) actually seem proud of that and that they (think they can/have argue(d) their way out of it.

There isn't much hope is there whilst idiots like this are on our roads and actually want to debate why they're not idiots.

Mike

OK, Mike I'll argue Black is White.

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there are people posting here who " people who think that even one drink is okay whilst driving despite tons of empirical evidence (anyone remember evidence rather than opinion?) conclusively to the contrary

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The reason that there is evidence suggesting drinking (even one) affects your driving is because someone has actually done that research. Seems obvious you may think, but just how is that reasearch done. Well usually it's testing a subjects driving and concentration abilities when alcohol free and then when under the influence of alchohol, and it can readily be demonstrated that someones concentration and driving ability is affacted by some percent. The same sort of tests were done for mobile phone use.

However these tests bear little comparison to the real world. If similar tests were done for: listening to the radio vs not listening to the radio; smoking vs not smoking; eating vs not eating; tuning the radio in/changing a CD vs no music; having a passenger vs no passenger; kids in the back vs no kids; tired driver vs fresh driver etc etc. We would find similar results in all these cases.

Studies show we only use 30-40% of our total concentration ability whilst doing a typical familiar drive. When put under scientific study a subject will concentraite as hard as possible.

Clearly drinking does have some effect on driving ability as does using the phone. But so to lots of other things, so when are we going to ban, radios, eating, smoking, passengers, old people, kids etc.

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Clearly drinking does have some effect on driving ability as does using the phone. But so to lots of other things, so when are we going to ban, radios, eating, smoking, passengers, old people, kids etc.

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All of the above, if found to make the standard of driving depart from the norm, would constitute driving without due care and attention. Just because the offence is committed does not mean you would get reported/charged with it tho. That depends on the relevant incident and the correlation to the CPS charging standards. A momentary lapse of concentration that falls below the standard expected of a careful and competant driver would constitue a due care (see Blackstone's Police Manuals 2005 - Traffic, Wilkinsons Taffic law etc etc)

The 'one standard of driving' is a legal definition, resulting from a stated case. This is subject to possibly being overruled, but this has been tried before and has failed.

I have done experiments with people re various levels of alcohol they have consumed, and then have got them to do divided attention tasks. Trust me in that this is subjective as it depends on lots of other factors, but the general rule is that even a half unit of alcohol in whatever form will slow your reactions down, and reduce your ability to do divided attention tasks, of which driving is one.

andy c!

Mike, the question was rather simple, who on this thread has said that drink-driving is ok?

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Most driving doesn't require lightning quick reactions, so I don't see how that can be affected by a few drinks.

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John, I this the above quote was one you used. Perhaps certain conclusions have been drawn from what you suggest.

andy c!

yes, if you take the quote out of context (as Mike seems to have done) it could. Of course the problem in the real world is that you have no way of predicting what is going to happen and when you'll need those reactions.

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Originally posted by John Sheridan:
yes, if you take the quote out of context (as Mike seems to have done) it could. Of course the problem in the real world is that you have no way of predicting what is going to happen and when you'll need those reactions.

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I saw something today (and yesterday) that might make some of you think about having that drink before you drive.

An articulated lorry coming towards us on a winding country road at the usual speed. The driver had the phone clamped to his right ear... and his left hand plugging his left ear. So he could hear the phone above the cab noise.

It might have been a first...except we saw a white van man doing exactly the same only yesterday. Both were clearly steering with their elbows.

The white van man was not so skilled as the lorry driver. He cut across the double white lines so sharply onto our side of the road on a tight corner. That he nearly brushed us off the road.

Now what was that about a small fine putting an end to this lunacy?

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Originally posted by Nime:
Now what was that about a small fine putting an end to this lunacy?

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I quite understand your comment and can imagine that was quite a scary moment - but who will police this???

Mike

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I saw something today (and yesterday) that might make some of you think about having that drink before you drive.

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CAN I MAKE THIS REALLY OBVIOUS FOR THOSE THAT KEEP INSISTING THAT I THINK SOMETHING TO THE CONTRARY

DRIVING AFTER DRINKING ALCOHOL IS DANGEROUS

As for me, if I'm going to drink then I don't take a car - even if it's going to be 'just one' - if I'm with car then I don't drink. Simple.
My earlier points were not attempting to defend driving while drunk (or after drinking even) merely trying to point out what it is that makes it dangerous.