SpaceShipOne
Posted by: ejl on 04 October 2004
Won the X-prize this morning.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/04/technology/04CND-SPAC.html?hp
After watching a documentary on this last night, I have to say I came away very impressed with Rutan and his project. This was some incredible shoe-string engineering coupled with balls-to-the-wall, and often terrifying, flying.
Some of the more interesting factiods:
- The ship is carbon fiber composite; i.e., cloth and glue. As a result, if it doesn't re-enter just right it will melt in an instant.
- Some parts of the ship were literally scavenged from automotive junkyards.
- flight controls are all manual gear and cable designs because the team couldn't afford anything else; no electrical motors and I'm not even sure about hydraulics (although it seems like there must be some somewhere). Remember that this thing's travelling several times the speed of sound into space.
So now three of the world's largest nations and one shoestring-budget group of 20 people can get to space.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/04/technology/04CND-SPAC.html?hp
After watching a documentary on this last night, I have to say I came away very impressed with Rutan and his project. This was some incredible shoe-string engineering coupled with balls-to-the-wall, and often terrifying, flying.
Some of the more interesting factiods:
- The ship is carbon fiber composite; i.e., cloth and glue. As a result, if it doesn't re-enter just right it will melt in an instant.
- Some parts of the ship were literally scavenged from automotive junkyards.
- flight controls are all manual gear and cable designs because the team couldn't afford anything else; no electrical motors and I'm not even sure about hydraulics (although it seems like there must be some somewhere). Remember that this thing's travelling several times the speed of sound into space.
So now three of the world's largest nations and one shoestring-budget group of 20 people can get to space.
Posted on: 04 October 2004 by Spock
Astonishing stuff, makes NASA look positively over funded. I can only wonder at the courage needed to climb on board such a thing.
Wot they need next is Warp Drive.
Spock
Wot they need next is Warp Drive.
Spock
Posted on: 04 October 2004 by Greg Beatty
"Astonishing stuff, makes NASA look positively over funded. I can only wonder at the courage needed to climb on board such a thing."
Interesting...seems that your second statement somewhat nullifies your first. Not picking at you, just noting that we probably wouldn't want NASA astronauts climbing "on board such a thing". Whether NASA pays too much to build what they put into space (and they well may) is another matter.
I wonder, given the nature of SpaceShipOne, if it is at all viable as a commercial venture.
- GregB
Insert Witty Signature Line Here
Interesting...seems that your second statement somewhat nullifies your first. Not picking at you, just noting that we probably wouldn't want NASA astronauts climbing "on board such a thing". Whether NASA pays too much to build what they put into space (and they well may) is another matter.
I wonder, given the nature of SpaceShipOne, if it is at all viable as a commercial venture.
- GregB
Insert Witty Signature Line Here
Posted on: 04 October 2004 by ejl
Greg,
There's quite a list of people willing to pay big bucks to ride on SS1 (it carries three). Rutan's group claims they could make a profit now since their flights are so cheap. Whether this will be the case after a few people get killed, however...
There's no doubt that flying in SS1 is incredibly risky. Yet I also can't help but think that the basic design is so simple and elegant, especially in its solution to re-entry, that the safety prospects of more developed variations might be pretty good.
Let's face it, the highly-complicated space shuttle has hardly proven itself a paradigm of saftey. Indeed, its sheer complexity has required a massive engineering and administrative network to operate. That network has now proven the achilles heel -- not once, but twice.
Rutan's group now wants to build a manned orbital vehicle. If his past success is even a partial indicator of the future, he may have it more quickly than we might think.
There's quite a list of people willing to pay big bucks to ride on SS1 (it carries three). Rutan's group claims they could make a profit now since their flights are so cheap. Whether this will be the case after a few people get killed, however...
There's no doubt that flying in SS1 is incredibly risky. Yet I also can't help but think that the basic design is so simple and elegant, especially in its solution to re-entry, that the safety prospects of more developed variations might be pretty good.
Let's face it, the highly-complicated space shuttle has hardly proven itself a paradigm of saftey. Indeed, its sheer complexity has required a massive engineering and administrative network to operate. That network has now proven the achilles heel -- not once, but twice.
Rutan's group now wants to build a manned orbital vehicle. If his past success is even a partial indicator of the future, he may have it more quickly than we might think.
Posted on: 05 October 2004 by Martin Payne
Heard this whilst I was driving home last night, and had to let out a little cheer. Maybe this will kick-start that push into space that seemed so inevitable when I was a lad 1/4 century ago.
It's mankind's future.
cheers, Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne (at) Dial.Pipex.com. Put "Naim" in the title.
It's mankind's future.
cheers, Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne (at) Dial.Pipex.com. Put "Naim" in the title.
Posted on: 05 October 2004 by Stephen Bennett
I'm just glad it wasn't Steve Bennett what done it.
Great show though - maybe I will get into space after all.
'Remember men, you are all over 40. You must accept the fact you will never become an Astronaut'
Stephen
Great show though - maybe I will get into space after all.
'Remember men, you are all over 40. You must accept the fact you will never become an Astronaut'
Stephen
Posted on: 05 October 2004 by ejl
Cliff, you're right that orbital flight is considerably more difficult for the reasons you mention (plus others like the significant extra fuel required to propel a craft to orbital altitudes).
However, SS1 is at zero velocity only at the apogee of its trajectory. After that it starts falling very quickly (negligible air resistance) and is going several times the speed of sound before it hits the heavy atmosphere. So there are still real thermal problems on re-entry, even if they are not as severe as for orbital craft.
Rutan solved the problem by creating a swinging wing design that both slows SS1 through the upper atmosphere and insures a correct angle of attack during re-entry (it also solves the otherwise deadly weight-balance problem caused by the empty fuel tanks). So because the craft's going slower (belly flopping, basically) and because the angle-of-attack on reentry is guaranteed (another major challenge for more normal space ships), SS1 gets away with much less thermal sheilding -- the sheilding doesn't need to be as thick and they know exactly where to put it.
Acheiving stability in super-sonic flight at normal altitudes is difficult by itself. Add the problem of stability in high-altitude atmospheric flight, and the further problem of stability in spaceflight, and you're looking at some major challenges for one design to satisfy (the dynamics differ in each context). The added challenges of re-entry and landing, and the enormous problems of keeping all of this under-weight and on-budget, made this project far from easy peasy (as I'm guessing you may know ).
Eric
However, SS1 is at zero velocity only at the apogee of its trajectory. After that it starts falling very quickly (negligible air resistance) and is going several times the speed of sound before it hits the heavy atmosphere. So there are still real thermal problems on re-entry, even if they are not as severe as for orbital craft.
Rutan solved the problem by creating a swinging wing design that both slows SS1 through the upper atmosphere and insures a correct angle of attack during re-entry (it also solves the otherwise deadly weight-balance problem caused by the empty fuel tanks). So because the craft's going slower (belly flopping, basically) and because the angle-of-attack on reentry is guaranteed (another major challenge for more normal space ships), SS1 gets away with much less thermal sheilding -- the sheilding doesn't need to be as thick and they know exactly where to put it.
Acheiving stability in super-sonic flight at normal altitudes is difficult by itself. Add the problem of stability in high-altitude atmospheric flight, and the further problem of stability in spaceflight, and you're looking at some major challenges for one design to satisfy (the dynamics differ in each context). The added challenges of re-entry and landing, and the enormous problems of keeping all of this under-weight and on-budget, made this project far from easy peasy (as I'm guessing you may know ).
Eric
Posted on: 05 October 2004 by Tim Jones
quote:
Originally posted by Cliff Patterson:
SS1 doesn't need to go round and round the earth, doesn't need to carry cargo etc. Easy peasy from what I can make out.
I think this is right Cliff - suspect that the really expensive bits re the telemetry and other things you need to actually go into orbit (plus a helluva lot more power), and the re-entry stuff.
SS1 seems to be basically just a thing that gets lobbed straight up in the air, very fast and just comes down again - like the pre-Gemini missions. Still, it's a start...
Tim
Posted on: 05 October 2004 by Spock
Originally posted by Cliff Patterson:
SS1 doesn't need to go round and round the earth, doesn't need to carry cargo etc. Easy peasy from what I can make out.
I may be wrong, but I thought to claim the prize the craft needed to carry either two passengers or the equivalent ballast. If so, even more of an achievement. The round and round bit will surely come later, either Rutan's team or maybe Mr Branson?
Then it will be Warp Drive.
Spock
SS1 doesn't need to go round and round the earth, doesn't need to carry cargo etc. Easy peasy from what I can make out.
I may be wrong, but I thought to claim the prize the craft needed to carry either two passengers or the equivalent ballast. If so, even more of an achievement. The round and round bit will surely come later, either Rutan's team or maybe Mr Branson?
Then it will be Warp Drive.
Spock
Posted on: 05 October 2004 by 7V
SS1 is clearly an amazing achievement.
Mind you a very much under heralded achievement was, in my view, man-powered flight over the English Channel. When you consider how long it took to achieve flight of any type ...
Steve
Mind you a very much under heralded achievement was, in my view, man-powered flight over the English Channel. When you consider how long it took to achieve flight of any type ...
Steve
Posted on: 05 October 2004 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by Cliff Patterson:
I always thought Nasa's problem on re-entry was this - Machine going dead fast with no brakes in space, turns towards Earth (still going like the clappers), has to hit earth atmosphere at correct angle otherwise either i) bounces off or ii) burns up.
From what I understand, SS1 achieved about 2,000MPH. Orbital velocity is 18,000MPH+.
One step at a time. The profits from sub-orbital tourism will help to fund development of better craft.
cheers, Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne (at) Dial.Pipex.com. Put "Naim" in the title.
Posted on: 05 October 2004 by Justin
Does anybody know what Rutan had iin the venture. I just assumed he had quite a bit more than $10 million in the job, and that the prize was for bragging rights.
This project is several years in the making with a considerable staff. How could he do it for less than even several multiples of $10 million?
The "feathering" bit is a bit of genius to slow the craft down and guarantee the right re-entry angle.
In the end, I think it was a huge achievment. But, had I been the X-prize people, I would have required one trip around the earth and then back down again. A HUGE undertaking, I know. But, that seems like a more "natural" goal.
Judd
This project is several years in the making with a considerable staff. How could he do it for less than even several multiples of $10 million?
The "feathering" bit is a bit of genius to slow the craft down and guarantee the right re-entry angle.
In the end, I think it was a huge achievment. But, had I been the X-prize people, I would have required one trip around the earth and then back down again. A HUGE undertaking, I know. But, that seems like a more "natural" goal.
Judd
Posted on: 05 October 2004 by Spock
Posted by Justin:
Would that be with a Human on board or a Monkey?
Spock
quote:
But, had I been the X-prize people, I would have required one trip around the earth and then back down again. A HUGE undertaking, I know. But, that seems like a more "natural" goal.
Would that be with a Human on board or a Monkey?
Spock
Posted on: 05 October 2004 by Justin
quote:
Originally posted by Spock:
Posted by Justin:quote:
But, had I been the X-prize people, I would have required one trip around the earth and then back down again. A HUGE undertaking, I know. But, that seems like a more "natural" goal.
Would that be with a Human on board or a Monkey?
Spock
A human, of course.
Judd
Posted on: 05 October 2004 by ejl
Judd,
The one estimate I saw put the cost at around $20 million -- don't know how accurate that as. Major funding came from M. Allen of Microsoft.
"SS1 seems to be basically just a thing that gets lobbed straight up in the air, very fast and just comes down again - like the pre-Gemini missions."
Actually it launches from a plane and lands as a glider, quite unlike the Mercury missions, although these details, and the immense technical challenges (that I outlined above) obviously don't interest you much.
The one estimate I saw put the cost at around $20 million -- don't know how accurate that as. Major funding came from M. Allen of Microsoft.
"SS1 seems to be basically just a thing that gets lobbed straight up in the air, very fast and just comes down again - like the pre-Gemini missions."
Actually it launches from a plane and lands as a glider, quite unlike the Mercury missions, although these details, and the immense technical challenges (that I outlined above) obviously don't interest you much.
Posted on: 05 October 2004 by Spock
For comparison, the 2004 NASA operating plan and budget can be viewed from this link NASA budget
Some interesting reading.
Spock
Some interesting reading.
Spock
Posted on: 06 October 2004 by JohanR
quote:
- flight controls are all manual gear and cable designs because the team couldn't afford anything else; no electrical motors and I'm not even sure about hydraulics (although it seems like there must be some somewhere). Remember that this thing's travelling several times the speed of sound into space.
Well, Gagarins capsule more than 40 years ago was very simple and what today can be considered realy low tech. It worked to. And he got into orbit, the "real" thing, and back.
Of course SS1 is a big achievement and very clevely executed, just compare with some other X-prize entrants. As stated above, even I might be able to get into space now...
JohanR
Posted on: 06 October 2004 by Berlin Fritz
Up yer Dolphins, you got there in the end, innit.
Posted on: 06 October 2004 by Tim Jones
quote:
Originally posted by ejl:
Judd,
The one estimate I saw put the cost at around $20 million -- don't know how accurate that as. Major funding came from M. Allen of Microsoft.
"SS1 seems to be basically just a thing that gets lobbed straight up in the air, very fast and just comes down again - like the pre-Gemini missions."
Actually it launches from a plane and lands as a glider, quite unlike the Mercury missions, although these details, and the immense technical challenges (that I outlined above) obviously don't interest you much.
No need to get out of your pram...jeez...
Tim