Bullying

My kids attend a private school which has a zero tolerance policy on bullying. Of course there is still the occasional problem but the school seem to handle things pretty well.

My son had a run in with a little thug in the year above but once told it was acceptable to use force in self defence he dealt with it himself and there have been no re-occurences. He got into minor trouble at school over it, but none at home...

My next worst fear, If I ever would be a parent, is that my kid would be a victim of bullying.
My worst fear is that the kid would turn into a bully her/himself.

I got my share to in school.

JohanR

Well done to Clive and the others who have been proactive in this sort of situation. Bullying simply cannot be tolerated. My son was bullied for a short time when he was seven. Almost overnight our bright, happy, well balanced child disappeared and was replaced by a sad, sullen, withdrawn little soul. After much coaxing he revealed that three boys were bullying him, and one of them was taking his tuck money. My first reaction was to tell him to stand up for himself but we’re not all natural fighters and that would probably have made things worse. So I went to his school, where the headmistress just wouldn’t accept what I told her. As she was notorious for her “they’re all angels at heart” approach I left it at that and went to her deputy who was much more of a realist. She rolled her eyes when I gave her the names of those involved and it was obvious I wasn’t the first to complain about them. Almost immediately she got them together and read the riot act. Coincidentally I found the one who was taking the money in our street. I gently took him aside and told him that his behaviour towards Andrew was making him very sad, which made me very sad, and if it didn’t stop it would make me angry and that as I’m a very bad person he wouldn’t like me when I was angry. As I’m quite large and broad, with a face that doesn’t smile naturally, and apparently with quite an intimidating appearance although I’m a big cuddly bear at heart, the kid was affected sufficiently to cease his activities immediately. Everything returned to normal quite quickly, it all became history, and was never mentioned again.

Afterwards I thought long and hard about my own behaviour in this. I accept that I bullied this child and that’s a pretty horrible thing to do. However my own son’s happiness was paramount here and this little thug was making his life a misery. I’m sorry but I would do the same thing again if required. I’d advise any of you who suspect your child is being bullied to act immediately as things will probably only get worse if you leave it. Children are entitled to have a happy, carefree childhood and it’s up to us do our best to ensure this happens.

Ironically one of the three has turned out to be a fine young man who is now Andrew’s best friend. The other two are frankly best forgotten about. One has dropped out of school, college, life, and has a troubled future in store. The other is a complete nonentity.

Clive.
I can fully understand the state of mind you are in at the moment, and true, I have no idea of the school your daughter currently goes to or the school that you feel you might send her to in the future, but it may not be addressing the problem which you may once again find yourselves in. I think bullying probably happens in most schools and it is useful to check the schools on-line to read Ofsted reports and learn the headteachers success rate with bullying in their school. I was able to do this when choosing a school.
To take your daughter away from her current school friends and thrust her into a new school environment may not be the best thing for her.
Is she happy to move schools?
As I said though: I have no idea of your local schools, so excuse me if this is inappropriate.

Hi Rasher
I have this morning visited two of these private schools and picked up their very glossy brochures. Only one of the two so far has any reference to bullying and it's approach, which is basically zero tolerance.

Our daughter in her state of distress over the past few days has been asking us to move her. We're aware this may change if things sort themselves out, but we will allow her to visit and discuss with us any new school we send her to.

After all this is her last year in primary school,and she will be moving along with the two thugs that are in her class, to the same secondary school. So the possibility of the bullying re-occuring is always there, it's a chance and risk we don't want to take.

Your remarks are not inappropriate, it's good to get objective views on this situation, myself and Mrs CP find it difficult to be objective when we're emotionally involved.

Regards
Clive

Clive,

Once again full marks to you for being so pro-active in ensuring your daughter's welfare.

I do have a question though, and I apologise if this appears insensitive or inappropriate, but I am genuinely interested to know, but earlier you said:-

"I walked my daughter to school this morning and I will also be picking her up from now on."

I can see clearly how this action is appropriate in the short-term, but long-term, is it possible that you could find your-self being over-protective by picking her up every day?

I'm not in any way suggesting there is anything wrong, just the possibility of achieving some sort of balance between protecting your daughter and allowing her the space to eventually look after herself, once she gains some measure of confidence that enables her to do so.

jon

Hi Cunningplan,

I can't add much to what's already been said, other than to say I sympathise with you as my daughter had a similar experience at primary school. In her case, it was more emotional blackmail by a girl from a difficult home who was "jealous" of my daughter's (relatively!) settled home life. Unfortunately, my daughter "suffered" in silence for quite a while until we realised what was going on, and we went to see the head. The school dealt with it very badly, taking the view that we all need to be more tolerant of other people less fortunate than ourselves! Happily, just the fact of bringing the matter more into the open was cathartic, and she learned to be more assertive with the girl concerned.
There are many forms of bullying, some more subtle than others. The hardest thing for the person being bullied is often overcoming the myriad of emotions, including fear and guilt, and actually "admitting it " to the parent. Unfortunately, many children go through so much unnecessary mental anguish before the parents realise what is at the bottom of their child's personality change.
Hope things work out.
Steve D

Hi Jon
My daughter wanted her independence at the start of the new school year in September, by going to and coming home from school on her own. This only changed this week when she asked to be taken and picked up, which I stated at the start of this thread we were not going to do.

The reason I decided to follow her home discretely is to see first hand the level of torment she was going through. After all kids do tend to exaggerate from time to time, and my daughter is no less prone to this than any other.

What I witnessed as I mentioned was un-acceptable by anyones standards. I admit we can't wrap her up in cotton wool for the rest of her life, but this will be short term until she changes schools, or feels confident enough to walk on her own again. That decision will be down to her, and she will let us know, that we're sure of.

Regards
Clive

quote:

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Originally posted by cunningplan:
... I admit we can't wrap her up in cotton wool for the rest of her life, but this will be short term until she changes schools, or feels confident enough to walk on her own again. That decision will be down to her, and she will let us know, that we're sure of.

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Clive,

I hope I can achieve this level of enlightened parenting when my two reach that age.

It's not easy and no-one gives you a baby-child 'user manual'. Still, your comments above are so sensible that I suspect they must be non-PC.

Steve M

quote:

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Originally posted by cunningplan:
Hi Jon
My daughter wanted her independence at the start of the new school year in September, by going to and coming home from school on her own. This only changed this week when she asked to be taken and picked up, which I stated at the start of this thread we were not going to do.

The reason I decided to follow her home discretely is to see first hand the level of torment she was going through. After all kids do tend to exaggerate from time to time, and my daughter is no less prone to this than any other.

What I witnessed as I mentioned was un-acceptable by anyones standards. I admit we can't wrap her up in cotton wool for the rest of her life, but this will be short term until she changes schools, or feels confident enough to walk on her own again. That decision will be down to her, and she will let us know, that we're sure of.

Regards
Clive

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Clive,

Thanks for your reply.

Point taken.

jon

Clive - well done.

Steve Toy criticised the "no blame" approach, and if I were a parent I would certainly be suspicious of its use at British schools. But what about countries such as Sweden where it is (as I understand it) the norm? Does it actually work there - and if so why? Is there an irreconcilable cultural difference at work?

Steve M: I'm surprised that Tae Kwon Do is better for young kids, since my impression is that, more than other martial arts, it depends on physical strength.

quote:

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Originally posted by Hawk:
I can appreciate that at this age its a case of almost innocent cruelty as id like to think that they truely couldnt understand the sadness it has caused to my little girl, and of course to my wife who is faced with a little girl who is too scared and upset to let mummy take her to school...

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Hawk:

Your story is heartbreaking. All the best to you and your family. Stay strong and know that there are total strangers pulling for you.

Regards,
Davie

quote:

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Originally posted by JeremyD:
Steve M: I'm surprised that Tae Kwon Do is better for young kids, since my impression is that, more than other martial arts, it depends on physical strength.

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Jeremy,

In all honesty I'm no expert on Tae Kwon Do. I think it could just as easily be Karate, Kung Fu or whatever. In my classes I discovered that children are naturally competitive and love using their strength, wrestling, etc. The principles of Ki Aikido were a little advanced for 7 - 10 year olds or, perhaps more likely, I didn't adequately adopt the teaching methods that I used for adults to suit children.

Finding the right teacher is more important than the method and the main thing is to give the children some self-confidence and self-discipline. I'll probably have another go when my own children get a little older.

Steve M

[This message was edited by 7V on Thu 04 November 2004 at 16:54.]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bhoyo:
Hawk:

Your story is heartbreaking. All the best to you and your family. Stay strong and know that there are total strangers pulling for you.

Regards,
Davie

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Ditto

Further update
I've just had the dad of one of the boys turn up on my doorstep. He was very apologetic and horrified that his son was involved in last nights incident.

He told me he would be going to the school tomorrow at the request of the headmistress, and would be calling round with his son later to apologise to my daughter. He also added that his son would appropriately punished for the crime.

At least we're heading in the right direction with all this, lets hope it continues.

Regards
Clive

Clive,

Good for you, and your daughter.

jon

Clive - great news.

Print this thread and give it to the father to contemplate the hurt, anguish and pain that his wretched offspring has caused.

Let your daughter read it too - she will know she is not alone and maybe it will give her confidence and strength.

Also consider legal action if appropriate in future. You seem to be getting somewhere without resorting to hard tactics but nice to know that you have something up your sleeve.

BE STRONG - DON'T LET THE BASTARDS TURN TO ANOTHER VICTIM

Clive, great news.

Nonetheless, like Tom, I had the privilege of a private education from ages 9 > 15. Bullying was absolutely rife. Sure, things may have changed but I don't think the cost of one's childrens' education is likely to have much bearing on their likelihood of being bullied. Wouldn't your daughter be moving school anyway when she reaches 11?

Alex

long-time-dead,
not sure that:
"Let your daughter read it too..."

and ...

"BE STRONG - DON'T LET THE BASTARDS TURN TO ANOTHER VICTIM"

Really go well together.


Well done Clive.

>Will add something funny when I think of it.<

Bhoyo, Rasher - Many thanks guys.. The school are going to have some words so fingers crossed..

Clive, Great news Im glad things seem to be working out and the boy's father's attitude was good to hear... The last thing needed would have been another thug involved!?

I am not a parent but may be one day, so I've nothing to add in terms of how to deal with this, but I can comment on the terrible consequences of unchecked bullying.

There was a girl a few doors from my home who committed suicide earlier this year as a direct consequence of bullying. The school has denied any responsibility, of course. It might well have made the papers but until the responsibility of schools to fulfil that duty of care is enforced, this is just another sad statistic that in my case happens to be close at hand.

On the other hand, to my shame I once bullied another kid when in primary school. He might have been a year younger. I don't know why I did it - I was only seven or eight myself - but I am sure I made his life difficult, and to this day I can't excuse my actions =- nor, to be frank, understand the reasons behind them. I wasn't a bad kid, but I was bad to that kid.

So, if I can be that 'bad kid', anyone can. I deeply regret that little portion of my life and to this day hope that the kid I cruelly taunted bounced back and that the bullying (I don't recall exactly, but I think it was perhaps continued name calling, chasing but I don't know if there was any fighting as such) was in no way detrimental to his subsequent development.

The sad thing is, I can't take it back. In retrospect, it was probably a combination of circumstances (new kid? I can't remember) but it sure makes me feel bad when I think about it.

Sorry, just wanted to get that off my chest.

John

quote:

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Originally posted by JeremyD:
Steve M: I'm surprised that Tae Kwon Do is better for young kids, since my impression is that, more than other martial arts, it depends on physical strength.

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My 8-year old son is doing judo which he appears to be picking up quickly (he can't quite throw me yet but he's getting close).

My kids throw me almost daily.

Alex S Said

quote:

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Nonetheless, like Tom, I had the privilege of a private education from ages 9 > 15. Bullying was absolutely rife. Sure, things may have changed but I don't think the cost of one's childrens' education is likely to have much bearing on their likelihood of being bullied. Wouldn't your daughter be moving school anyway when she reaches 11?

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Hi Alex
Yes you're correct, my daughter will be going to another school when she's 11 (next Aug)

As I mentioned in a previous posting the kids that have been doing the bullying will also be moving with her. At least the private school we're now considering does a have a zero tolerance to bullying.

We both know that there are no guarantees when it comes to things like this, but at least we have some sort of safety net if it ever occurs again. You can't really put a price on the peace of mind that will give us.

Regards
Clive

[This message was edited by cunningplan on Fri 05 November 2004 at 14:10.]

Absolutely! You must do what you think is best. If primary school can be tricky, secondary schooling throws up a far greater challenge.

Take your daughter out somewhere nice, just the two of you.