Where is the Outrage at the inhumane treatment?

Posted by: Tarquin Maynard - Portly on 23 June 2004

I seem to recall that when Saddam Hussein was shown on TV having a dental and external medical examiniation, there was much faux outrage at the despicable treatment meeted out to this guy, who most people would view as pretty evil: having been responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, Iraqi and Iranian: invading a sovereign Arab State and torturing any opponents etc etc.

Eight matelots delivering a boat cross an unmarked border, are captured and paraded blindfolded on TV and are coerced into making a statement.

Not a word about this.

Mike
Posted on: 23 June 2004 by AL4N
indeed! it's a scandal and no mistake,they(incharge of this)are dogs,and as such deserve to be put down,an eye for an eye...maybe Mad
Posted on: 23 June 2004 by Alex S.
Crazy, outrageous foreigners! Send in the warships and blow them all to Hell, and or Scotland!
Posted on: 23 June 2004 by starbuck
quote:
matelots


Excuse my ignorance, Mike, but what does this word mean? I tried looking it up in an on-line dictionary and the closest match had a description of "A fish stew that is cooked in a wine sauce" - I take it that this isn't how you've intended it's use.

Interesting point though, by the way, about the lack of outrage expressed. I, too, remember said outrage about the treatment of Saddam. I also remember a Daily Express phone in poll for it's readers, asking whether it's readers felt that we should now torture him. Accepting that the climate of our society is such that we have a phone in poll about torture in a mainstream daily newspaper, and that said poll being published doesn't generate complaints from the readership, I would guess that it's safe to assume that we, as a society, are generally pretty inhumane ourselves, so it doesn't (unfortunately) surprise me to note that the publication of the photos under discussion has passed by with barely a whisper.

I hope that makes sense - bit of a late afternoon ramble.

Chris.
Posted on: 23 June 2004 by Tim Danaher
Matelot = Sailor

Cheers,

Tim
_____________________________

Os nid Campagnolo yw hi, dyw hi ddim yn werth ei marcho...
Posted on: 23 June 2004 by starbuck
Thanks Tim - that makes a bit more sense. "Fish stew in wine sauce" shall be reserved for future use in a metaphor for the situation.

Cheers,

Chris.
Posted on: 23 June 2004 by Alex S.
My dictionary says:

'Matelots' - Bunny Rabbits.
Posted on: 23 June 2004 by David Stewart
Yeah!! - so where is the local spokesperson for Amnesty International when he's needed - come on now Matthew speak up !!

David
Posted on: 23 June 2004 by JeremyD
I think it's taken for granted that we're outraged when our people are mistreated, hence less outward sign of outrage in the case of these soldiers.

But I think it's understandable if more outrage is expressed when it's our people doing the mistreating: we expect higher standards.
Posted on: 23 June 2004 by Bob McC
My brother in laws sat nav can deliver him to the door of Tesco. I see they were so equipped. I thought it told you where you were to within a few feet your position. If so how did they end up in Iranian territorial waters if they didn't mean to be there?

Bob
Posted on: 23 June 2004 by cunningplan
quote:
My brother in laws sat nav can deliver him to the door of Tesco.



Why would he want to use Sat Nav to get him to Tesco's. I suppose it would be far more useful in store to find the damn products Smile

Regards
Clive
Posted on: 23 June 2004 by Roy T
A view from the other side of the waterway, please apply the correct cultural filters when viewing this report.

Roy T
Posted on: 23 June 2004 by matthewr
David Stewart said "Yeah!! - so where is the local spokesperson for Amnesty International when he's needed - come on now Matthew speak up !!"

Well since you asked:

1. In the "Saddam Found" thread I made it very clear that although the "medical examination film [...] is a clear contravention of the public curiosity clause [...] I don't suppose anybody will be too bothered on that count" and explicitly that I wasn't "offended by [Saddam's treatment] and [...] I was hardly losing sleep over Saddam's rights".

2. I noted at the time that a good argument for treating Saddam "by the book" is not becuase we are overly concerned for his human rights but becuase "treating him in this way makes it very difficult to argue that this shouldn't happen to other prisoners captured by other regimes in the future."

3. I also noted at the time that those who were unconcerned or even pleased at Saddam's treatment would undoubtedly be guilty of a double standard should British prisoners be subject to similar treatment. To wit: "The video was clearly designed to show him a humilaiated and broken man. If that was a Birtish serviceman on Iraqi TV I am fairly sure you would be jumping up and down (as would I)". This turned out to be more than somewhat prescient.

So, Mr Stewart, you brought up my name in a thread I had nothing to do with and unfairly implied I held certain views without having the decency to check your facts which would have informed you I held pretty much the opposite.

Given that and the sneering, snivelling manner in which you chose to do this I think I could be forgiven were I to tell you to fuck off.

Matthew
Posted on: 23 June 2004 by Berlin Fritz
They should be bloody court marshalled when they return, idiots.

Fritz Von Bismarck Razz

Piss: Routine patrol means ROUTINE, IE WELL REHERSED ETC ETC.
Posted on: 23 June 2004 by long-time-dead
quote:
........blow them all to Hell, and or Scotland!


To quote Matthew :

** Deep Sigh **
Posted on: 23 June 2004 by Berlin Fritz
Just a reminder that Millions were killed in the Mega powers financed/armed Iran - Iraq War, that's Millions chaps, not tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands, that's Millions, with six noughts.

Fritz Von Keepyerperspectivelads Smile
Posted on: 24 June 2004 by Alex S.
** irony **
Posted on: 24 June 2004 by David Stewart
quote:
Given that and the sneering, snivelling manner in which you chose to do this I think I could be forgiven were I to tell you to fuck off.
Matthew - Absolutely no snivelling or sneering intended - I merely thought it out of character that you'd not already taken the opportunity to express your support for our boys in Iran Wink Hardly a justification for such a rabid outpouring of invective Smile

D
Posted on: 24 June 2004 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
quote:
Originally posted by bob mccluckie:
My brother in laws sat nav can deliver him to the door of Tesco. I see they were so equipped. I thought it told you where you were to within a few feet your position. If so how did they end up in Iranian territorial waters if they didn't mean to be there?

Bob


Bob

One of the sad facts of the UKs armed services is that budgets are constantly being cut. Big ships ( boats? ) would, no doubt, have GPS but small craft of the kind being used here would very likely not.

Its an old military adage that "equipment is made by the lowest bidder".

Except the SA80 of course, which up until recently was a pile of pooh as a combat rifle.

Regards

Mike

Spending money I don't have on things I don't need.
Posted on: 24 June 2004 by Berlin Fritz
quote:
Originally posted by David Stewart:
quote:
Given that and the sneering, snivelling manner in which you chose to do this I think I could be forgiven were I to tell you to fuck off.
Matthew - Absolutely no snivelling or sneering intended - I merely thought it out of character that you'd not already taken the opportunity to express your support for our boys in Iran Wink Hardly a

justification for such a rabid outpouring of invective Smile
D


Mathew, You suprise me with such cheap Bow Shots, your football knowledge is far more important to us than armchair Sun readers banter, you should know better.

Cheers, Fritz Von Murdochwinseverytime Cool
Posted on: 24 June 2004 by Berlin Fritz
quote:
Originally posted by mike lacey:
quote:
Originally posted by bob mccluckie:
My brother in laws sat nav can deliver him to the door of Tesco. I see they were so equipped. I thought it told you where you were to within a few feet your position. If so how did they end up in Iranian territorial waters if they didn't mean to be there?


That's allright then, innit John ?

Fritz Von Clinkerbuilt Razz
Bob


Bob

One of the sad facts of the UKs armed services is that budgets are constantly being cut. Big ships ( boats? ) would, no doubt, have GPS but small craft of the kind being used here would very likely not.

Its an old military adage that "equipment is made by the lowest bidder".

Except the SA80 of course, which up until recently was a pile of pooh as a combat rifle.

Regards

Mike

Spending money I don't have on things I don't need.
Posted on: 24 June 2004 by JeremyD
quote:
Originally posted by David Stewart:
Matthew - Absolutely no snivelling or sneering intended - I merely thought it out of character that you'd not already taken the opportunity to express your support for our boys in Iran Wink Hardly a justification for such a rabid outpouring of invective Smile
Since Matthew presumably lacked access to David's private thoughts, his only way of determining what David meant was by reading what David actually wrote, which obviously put him at a disadvantage.
Posted on: 24 June 2004 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
the Marines have been released.

Spending money I don't have on things I don't need.
Posted on: 24 June 2004 by matthewr
David,

If there was no snivelling or sneering intended then it's not clear quite what you meant or why you posted what did and why you felt the need to use excessive exclamation points. Your disingenuous half-explanation hardly helped clarify things.

There was nothing rabid and no invective in my post. I just plainly stated the facts as I believe them to be and then noted that if I had told you to fuck off (which I didn't) in response to this unwarranted outburst I might have been forgiven. FWIW if I had been going for invective I would probably have used the phrase "sanctimonious prick".

Matthew
Posted on: 24 June 2004 by matthewr
handheld GPS units were amongst the items displayed by Iranian TV

If we have inflicted bid.up.TV on them is it any wonder they hate the West?
Posted on: 24 June 2004 by Simon Perry
I am a member of Amnesty, but I must say I didn't feel miuch outrage at the treatment of the British soldiers captured in Iranian waters, or the treatment of Saddam.
Without seeing footage of a captured Saddam I am not sure that I would have believed the Americans had got him, let alone the Iraqi people, and there are much worse human rights abuses in Iran than a few well-trained soldiers having a camera stuck in their faces.
Simon