Top speed

Biker deaths are on the increase - can't imagine why.

IAM? I worked with a woman who was an "advanced" motorist. She managed to drive her car through the wall of her garage one morning because the night before her husband had left it in gear...

cheers

Nigel

I'm charged with keeping our customers happy and, it seems, alive. While speed may not kill - things get seriously more pear shaped when they happen at warp velocities.

So - an expression of moderation for you, your passengers and other road users. I myself ride a Honda VFR 800 VTEC and I don't believe I have ever exceeded the National Speed Limit.

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Originally posted by Nigel Cavendish:
Biker deaths are on the increase - can't imagine why.

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Partly because there are more bikes on the road, and partly because of a "sunny sunday rider" culture amongst older riders (often called "born again" riders.

I know lots of folks with fast (e.g. 996, R1, Blade) bikes in the garage that perhaps ride 500 miles a year. When they do get out inevitably it's on a sunny Sunday with a group of similar riders who's macho egos push each other onto to faster riding and scarier overtakes (in their loud piped, small number plated bikes with matching leathers), usually in the midst of tourist traffic. What that leads to is a bad image for bikers in general, police crackdowns (there was one this weekend at Tyndrum where they stopped every bike that passed) and some nasty accidents.

I rode my CBR600 at the weekend for the first time in a few months and there was no way I was dialed into its performance, so I took things very easy.

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I myself ride a Honda VFR 800 VTEC and I don't believe I have ever exceeded the National Speed Limit.
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with all due respect Adam, I cannot beleive that there is anyone out there that hasn't broken the speed limit at some time. No matter how hard you try its impossible not to go over the limit at some time on your journey.

Regards


NB

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Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
So - an expression of moderation for you, your passengers and other road users. I myself ride a Honda VFR 800 VTEC and I don't believe I have ever exceeded the National Speed Limit.

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Yeah, yeah - we believe you...

What is the point of all this? Track days are readily available all over the country. If you want to go fast why not go to a track day and test yourself to the limit.
The only possible reason for choosing to do this on public roads is to enjoy breaking the law, and endangering others as opposed to just yourselves.

I'm with NB and others on this.

On Sunday I drove from London to Oxford and back, A40/M40 all the way.

The A40 part within the M25 has ridiculous speed limits, in every way. This is the only place I have ever received a speeding ticket (£60 + 3 points for doing 48 in a 40). So, on a once-bitten-twice-shy basis, and to the consternation of my passenger, I observed the limits. On the 40mph section (three lanes, no pedestrian access, no buildings) I was the slowest vehicle, by some margin. I was overtaken by several taxis (who presumably have much more than a fine to lose) two double-decker buses, and every other vehicle.

If 100% of the people are breaking a law, I feel that the law is wrong, not that everyone is a criminal.

The limit then rises to 50 and the same thing applies. However, when you cross into the London Borough of Hillingdon (it seems) the limit mysteriously rises to 70, with no discernable change in the road or its impact on other road users. What about this geographical change makes the road some 42% safer for rapid driving?

The low 40/50mph limits are simply money-making devices that are making criminals out of nearly everyone. In fact if everyone drove at the limits there would possibly be more accidents when the frustrated in-a-hurry drivers try to get through.

When people lose their licences after just four such transgressions, but continue to drive (as I imagine a great many do), they do so uninsured, a far greater menace to the roads and road users.

This is a wholly innapropriate "tax" and couching it in the language of "road safety" is repulsive and ultimately will be self defeating.

Mind you, I find some of the speeds being boasted of on this thread quite frightening. I was once in an aquaplaning accident, and had I been going any faster than the 70 I was, I would be dead. No thrill, early arrival or caught-against-the-odds flight is worth my life to me.

Sanctimony over. I did once triple the speed limit (30) on the Tay Bridge coming into Dundee, in a knackered beetle, just to see if I could (it is a bridge that, unusually, slopes). But I was a student at the time.

Road accidents happen and people die (often pedestians and cyclists). If I was speeding and involved in an RTA and someone died, I would blame ME, and my life would be also damaged as a result.

I told you I was a born-again law-abider.

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Originally posted by Rockingdoc:
What is the point of all this? Track days are readily available all over the country.

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I've been on several track days (Knockhill and Cadwell Park) and didn't hit any particularily high speeds (rarely over 140mph in fact) as I kept applying road rules and backing off over blind crests etc.

I had some top speed once, got it from a bloke called Bill.

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Boring git.

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Just winding you up, Patrick

In fact I'd far rather fly in heli than the ancient technology my boss prefers to keep himself off the ground (Harvard, Mustang etc.)

Andy.

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I've done a fair bit of advanced training, mainly on motorbikes.

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And presumably see some merit in it, even if it isn't perfect, unlike John Sheridan, who obviously knows he is.

John, as Steve points out, the attitude to speed from the instructors does vary a bit from person to person, but as already pointed out by Steve G, the two conditions you mention (making progress and keeping to speed limits) are not mutually incompatible, as you seem to think they are.

Andy (who is far from perfect).

I have children, and if I caught someone doing 60 down the high street putting my childrens lives in danger, I would rip their fucking heads off.
I really don't like the way this thread is going.

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Originally posted by Andrew L. Weekes:

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I've done a fair bit of advanced training, mainly on motorbikes.

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And presumably see some merit in it

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Most of it was very good indeed, especially a cornering skills course I did at Knockhill.

I might continue on with the RoSpa road stuff at some point.

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Originally posted by NB:
Entering this one a bit late,

a 176 mph

NB

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Oh baby ! Come to papa !

wrt the IAM. I think you all need to understand the way the IAM works, and how you can sift through the IAM driving techniques and apply those you agree with. It's clearly an organisation concerned with road safety, and is supported heavily by serving & ex traffic plod, and that being the case, cannot really condone exceeding the speed limits. Unofficially, the instructors encourage pushing on where appropriate. I've taken IAM training/test twice so far, and all the instructors/observers were normal, friendly and no more arrogant than I am...

In terms of IAM philosopy, well, take and apply the parts you agree with and disregard what doesn't work for you. I would imagine someone like John Sheridan would breeze through the test with the minimum of coaching, but there is always the potential to learn or hone new techniques. I'm convinced that anyone who goes through the IAM course/test will come out a better driver, it's then simply a question of degree. Some will benefit more than others.

If you have any specific criticism of advanced driving theory Steve, let's have it out in the open.

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IAM? I worked with a woman who was an "advanced" motorist. She managed to drive her car through the wall of her garage one morning because the night before her husband had left it in gear...

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OK Nigel, she made a mistake. Does that have any relevance to IAM training ?


regards,

Brian

Brian OReilly

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Originally posted by Rasher:
I have children, and if I caught someone doing 60 down the high street putting my childrens lives in danger, I would rip their fucking heads off.

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So would I. I have hauled a chap out of his car for shaving while driving at 30mph past a primary school when the kids were going in. I was absolutely fuming.

When I worked in central Edinburgh I used to pass 3 speed cameras on the way in, and I also used to pass several schools. Want to guess how many of the speed cameras were anywhere near the schools or near where kids were walking to school?

Since moving office there are now no speed cameras on my commute and I pass 4 schools. Still no speed cameras but at least 2 off them have part-time 20mph speed limits outside. It's amazing how many folks ignore the 20mph speed limits though (despite there being parked cars on both sides of the street as well), and even more amazing when at least half of them then drop their kids off at that school...

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Originally posted by Rasher:
I have children, and if I caught someone doing 60 down the high street putting my childrens lives in danger, I would rip their fucking heads off.
I really don't like the way this thread is going.

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Well done, full marks, you've managed to completely miss the point.

Brian OReilly

Well said Rasher, sadly it would seem that some egos are more important than childrens lives.....

What was it the manics said, oh yes:

'If you tolerate this.....'

No Brian, I appreciate the point of the thread, but when we have this sort of thing I think it's going the wrong way:

"I overtook them at 110mph, the blade caught up and overtook me @ 120+ mph doing a wheely, well the gaunlet was thrown, i had to use everylane and the hard shoulder, but caught that git at 135mph. After 10mins of HARD racing may brakes where all but useless.
I turned off into Epping forest the GSXR followed, and i raced behind him through the forest (not really overtaking roads), but i overtook some old vectra to catch upto him, the GSXR realised i was probably going to knock him down and pulled over, and let me pass "

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Originally posted by Brian OReilly:
If you have any specific criticism of advanced driving theory Steve, let's have it out in the open.

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On the theory side my main issue with the IAM teachings is the "no brakes" style which they advocate on all types of road. It works well on sweeping roads with clear sightlines (especially in the wet) but it's very ineffective on tighter twisty roads where the only way to make swift & safe progress is using a "point and squirt" style of riding.

All the advanced stuff I've had involvement with has taught sightlines that is a key concept which I would expect that the "all speeding is very dangerous" group are unfamiliar with.

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Originally posted by Rasher:
No Brian, I appreciate the point of the thread, but when we have this sort of thing I think it's going the wrong way:

"I overtook them at 110mph, the blade caught up and overtook me @ 120+ mph doing a wheely, well the gaunlet was thrown, i had to use everylane and the hard shoulder, but caught that git at 135mph. After 10mins of HARD racing may brakes where all but useless.
I turned off into Epping forest the GSXR followed, and i raced behind him through the forest (not really overtaking roads), but i overtook some old vectra to catch upto him, the GSXR realised i was probably going to knock him down and pulled over, and let me pass "

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The driver involved is obviously a total fucking idiot plus the chap on the GSXR was either not trying or just plain shite.

It's quite regular to encounter arseholes like that when you're out on the bike but fortunately in my experience so far it's always been very easy to leave them far, far behind.

200 mph. Straight down, head first.
Gravity powered, air cooled.

simon

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Originally posted by Lo Fi Si:
200 mph. Straight down, head first.
Gravity powered, air cooled.

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The thought of jumping out of a perfectly serviceable aeroplane scares the shit out of me! I'm not even particularily bothered by heights but the thought of throwing myself out of that door - *shudder*

Not the High st. then is it Rasher ?

How about someone hitting your kid or mine at 30mph on the High St. That OK is it ?

The limits are arbitrary. The safe speed depends on the conditions, no ifs, no buts. You will habitually hear those who talk about big speeds on open roads also condemning those who drive at or over the speed limits in urban areas. Drive to the prevailing conditions.

Anticipate. Predict. Plan. Think. Take responsibility for your own actions.

Brian OReilly

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I'm convinced that anyone who goes through the IAM course/test will come out a better driver, it's then simply a question of degree. Some will benefit more than others.

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I couldn't agree more, it's not perfect, but it is useful.

Whilst often mis-interpreted as a rigid structure within which to work, I've always taken the view that the process of creating driving plans is genuinely useful, how one acts upon them, once formed, is open to a bit more interpretation.

"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts."

Andy.