Top speed

OK, so we had an "inexperienced driver going at an inappropriately fast speed" being distracted momentarily to change the CD say, and he kills 8 people including himself and two children.
If he was doing 60mph they would all probably still be alive.
So what are you going to do? Give all chavs a frontal lobotomy, or make sure they can't go fast enough to threaten the lives of innocent people when they don't give a fuck about anyone or anything? Well,... let's see which option is more feasible

Rasher some of what you say is right this is possibly just another example of "not giving a fuck".
I must have had a least four examples this morning, people blocking access on to road / roundabout etc when it is painfully obvious they can't go anywhere but now neither can you.
As regards the A23 crash the local paper has not said who was driving. My eldest has heard that the BMW was racing another car. Mind you given the time and the weather not sure there would have been enough free space to race.My youngest was at school with the 20 yr old lad BTW.
Are you advocating just chavs /BMWs are restricted to say 40-50 mph? Every body else (this is you and me and the other 20 or 30 sensible people will be unrestricted.)


Howard

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If he was doing 60mph they would all probably still be alive.

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On what basis do you state that? I think that's an extremely brave statement.

IIRC 8 or 9 people a day die on the roads. Neither you nor the government seems particularly concerned about reducing this. In the case of the government this is a change of policy after many years of increasing traffic and reducing casualties.

Paul

For all those taken in by the speed kills fucking rubbish look at this. Interesting that all the "enforcement" shite started in the late 90's early 2000.
Martin

While I was driving to work this morning I was reminded of the worst bit of dangerous driving I've every seen.

Near where I live there is a rural A-road with one very long straight approached via a winding section through trees and, just before the start of the straight, a couple of blind dips - these sections all have double white lines.

Usually the road is very quiet, however one morning a queue of about 8 cars had formed behind a Nissan Micra (or similar) which was being driving at around 45mph in the 60mph limit. Road conditions were dry and clear.

I joined the tail of the traffic queue just before the blind dips and almost immediately a car came up behind, travelling at perhaps 80-90mph and overtook me and the car in front of me on the double white lines, forcing his way back in just in time to miss an oncoming car which had been out of sight in the dip. Immediately it had past by he then pulled out and overtook another couple of cars, this time coming so close to a car hidden in the next dip that I thought they were all going to die. He just managed to regain his own side of the road however, missing the oncoming car by inches. By this time we're onto the straight where he passed the remaining cars and dissappeared off into the distance. Given you can see the road ahead for over a mile on the straight overtaking in the dips was totally crazy and could easily have resulted in a death.

Both the dangerous overtakes probably took place below the speed limit.

The reason I was reminded of it this morning was because I came up behind a similar small queue of traffic at the same point (behind a Micra and a Fiesta this time) doing 40mph in the 60mph limit, which I overtook on the long straight and hitting 80mph (the only time I broke a speed limit on my way to work this morning) as I safely passed them.

Regards
Steve

Yes Steve, accelerating to 80 to pass a line of cars, where it is safe and sensible to do so is totally the right thing to do. I do it.
I agree that it is not all about speed limits, but how else can we stop our roads being used as race tracks that put lives at risk? I don't know the answer, but slowing everything down must be at least something, or build wider two lane roads everywhere (!).
Maybe there should be motorsport tracks open for everyone at no cost, so kids & us can get their cars onto a track and have fun in relative safety(!). It must be hugely frustrating to have a quick car and not be able to use it. I'm sure that this would at least help.

Oh - and I forgot to mention that the car doing the dangerous overtakes was actually a marked traffic police car...

Paul - The stretch of road in question has a central barrier that should prevent a car from going into the opposite carriageway at 60mph. I know this road really well, so trust me on that.
Howard - "Are you advocating just chavs /BMWs are restricted to say 40-50 mph?" No, everyone if that's what it takes. Shame that most capable drivers pay the price for a tiny minority, but isn't that always the case?
Look, there were tiny children sitting in their car seats in the back of a car just wiped out by idiots (allegedly). They could have been yours or mine. I can't move beyond that thought personally. It terrifies me. If they were my children I don't know if I could go on & I accept that these comments are made while still very shaken by this.

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Originally posted by Steve G:
Oh - and I forgot to mention that the car doing the dangerous overtakes was actually a marked traffic police car...

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Makes no difference. There are mindless morons in every profession.

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Originally posted by Rasher:
Howard - "Are you advocating just chavs /BMWs are restricted to say 40-50 mph?" No, everyone if that's what it takes. Shame that most capable drivers pay the price for a tiny minority, but isn't that always the case?

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What's wrong with a style of policing that actually targets those offenders rather than relying on speed cameras which can penalize exceeding the speed limit, but not more dangerous driving offences (careless driving, dangerous driving, driving without insurance, racing on the public highway, driving an unsafe vehicle, tailgating, crossing double white lines, driving at inappropriate speed for the road or traffic conditions, doing your hair/nails/makeup/shaving while driving, eating your breakfast while driving, reading the paper while driving, falling asleep while driving)?

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Originally posted by Rasher:
Makes no difference. There are mindless morons in every profession.

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Quite a difference when those same mindless morons then book you for speeding at 80mph in a 60mph limit though, as would have happened if they'd have seen my overtake...

Steve - I agree with you entirely with both of the above posts.

Speed cameras clearly have the potential to penalise safe overtaking rather than dangerous driving but I think this thread illustrates their necessity. Employing sufficient police to make them unnecessary seems impossible.

Whether cameras are being used as wisely as they might be is another matter...

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Originally posted by Martin D:
For all those taken in by the speed kills fucking rubbish look at this.

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The graph shown provides no information one way or the other about the dangers or otherwise of speed.

What might be useful is statistics from countries where speed limits have been reduced or increased and where drivers have mostly kept to the speed limit before and after the change. I wonder if suitable statistics are available from some US states (where 70mph speed limits were reduced to 55mph in the seventies)?

Jeremy - I thought "For all those taken in by the speed kills fucking rubbish look at this." together with the graph from an organisation called "Pistonheads.com - Speed Matters" wasn't worthy of comment, but you are right - it is nonsense statistics by ...err....Pistonheads I suppose. It didn't sound as if it was going to be very intelligent though, did it!

"160 mph on A36"
Unfortunately Rasher your wasting your time,
thats why I didn't bother replying to Paul
oldie.

The facts are that road deaths are on the increase again after many years of decrease. The Piston heads graph reflects real actual numbers.

This turn-around is coincident with the rise of the speed camera and disappearance of police. The same period that shows an enormous rise in speeding fines shows a decrease in careless/dangerous driving cases. It's obvious to any driver that the incidence of careless driving hasn't decreased.

I despair of government and the people here who support policy that encourages irresponsibility rather than responsibility, that tolerates increasing road death as long as nobody speeds past cameras.

Paul

Yu p...
I guess it pretty much finishes the thread.

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Originally posted by H_F:
185 mph indicated, middle of desert, cbr1100xx.
Hugo

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Rather you than me HF. I rode one of those and it was like a whale with collic. Not exactly capable of "sports mode". Rather you than me.
You must have the balls of a bull.

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Originally posted by Rasher:

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Originally posted by H_F:
185 mph indicated, middle of desert, cbr1100xx.
Hugo

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Rather you than me HF. I rode one of those and it was like a whale with collic. Not exactly capable of "sports mode".

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Aren't they supposed to be very stable at high speed though?

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Aren't they supposed to be very stable at high speed though?

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Unlike the riders

Howard

Nick,
That's one of, if not the most, sensible comments made on this thread.
oldie.

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Originally posted by Emeritus:
b)Yes, of course I checked my mirrors, but as I was, as stated, driving at 85mph, a reasonable driver should assume that no-one but a cretin would be coming up behind him, around (even a low-radius motorway) curve at such a speed as to require the latter to brake heavily (as evidenced by the 'dip' in his bonnet which coincided with the preadvertised 'flashing lights').

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err, why? I quote from RoadCraft:
"Key Safety Points when Overtaking: Avoid causing other vehicles (overtaken, following or approaching) to alter course or speed"
"use your mirrors regularly - you should know at all times what is happening behind you"
"before overtaking be alert for: faster vehicles coming up behind you"

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The other vehicle involved in my recounted incident was an 'F' reg XR3i in fluo pink

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does it matter what the other vehicle was?

Let's face it, you made a mistake (as we all have done and will continue to do), my problem is firstly you don't believe you made a mistake and secondly that rather than learning from it you are insisting on trying to blame someone else for it - or worse, that his bad taste in vehicles is to blame.


Now if we want so truly dangerous driving think about this:
I was at having some new tyres fitted to my car yesterday. While I was waiting in came Mr Flash in his new Jag and Mr Swanky in his new BMW. They BOTH asked for retreads to be fitted to their cars... why these things are legal in the first place astounds me but for people who can afford to drive luxury vehicles to be fitting them to their cars is just plain criminal.

John

it's not so much that retreads are dangerous - it's just that they're usually driven well outside of their operating envelope (eg speed rated for 120Km/h), and are often attached as you point out, to cars which require a more capable tyre.

I don't use retreads any more, havn't done since I was penniless in my early 20's. Safety is far more important than a few £ saved.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

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Originally posted by Rico:
it's not so much that retreads are dangerous

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except for their lack of grip. I had a huge slide at 70km/h in the dry, around a bend that (theoretically of course) could be taken at over 100km/h -because an unscrupulous dealer fitted them to my car and I was too trusting to check when before I left
the dealership. Even if you're not worried about cornering, what about braking distances?

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it's just that they're usually driven well outside of their operating envelope (eg speed rated for 120Km/h), and are often attached as you point out, to cars which require a more capable tyre.

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and when you start driving at speeds close to the maximum rating of a tyre you're going to end up with a blowout. I worked once with a guy and was telling him the story above. He said he thought retreads were fine, afterall he'd just driven to Queensland and back and *only* had 2 blowouts. Arrrrggggghhhh.