CD5/HiCap vs. CDX2--My audition

Posted by: glevethan on 28 June 2004

Hello to all
In a previous thread "This Naim thing is getting a bit too intense" I commented on the changes which I noted after connecting a HiCap to my CD5. To quote:

"I wanted to experiment with a HiCap and see what benefits could be gained. My dealer initially connected the HiCap to the Nait5 and I lived with it for a week. After reading some comments here I decided to experiment and place the HiCap on the CD5.

It is truly incredible the differences which a HiCap has made.
DRAMATIC !

The CD5 has become a different machine - I never knew how good it could become with the addition of a power supply. What surprised me was that it appears that the CD5 always "had it" inside - it just needed "something" to bring it out (ie a HiCap).

The timbre of all the instruments has changed (more realistic- they sound like they "should") - vocals sound more natural and warmer - instruments have more individuality and separation - the timing and rhythm of the music has completely changed - everything just comes together and relates to each other like it probably was originally intended to be - mid's and high's are more vibrant - the bass has tightened and firmed up and has more weight.

All in all a truly incredible transformation - I did not know that a CD5 was capable of such things."



Well I had the chance this weekend to audition a CDX2 at my dealer. I brought with me my ProAc SuperTablette speakers and we hooked them up to a Nait5. For the sake of accuracy my dealer did not want to hook up both players to two different inputs of the Nait but rather use just one input, thus one constant volume setting, and swap cables each time we did a comparison. This was more accurate however at the end I myself veered away from the classic A/B of a single song, and ended up playing 2 or 3 songs on one player and then the same 2-3 songs on the other player. This was probably not the best approach and I began to tire and get confused rather quickly.

The final outcome was that I decided follow through with my planned purchase of the HiCap and leave the CDX2 for another time and place. Both myself and another store employee came away saying that the CD5/HiCap combination was "quite a fighter" honorably defending itself quite well against the bare CDX2. On many of my old RnB CD's recorded in the 50's and 60's (Ray Charles-Solomon Burke-Sam Cooke) there really was not a difference between the two. This probably was due to the nature of the recordings-their transition to CD etc. A recording such as Abbey Road or Van Morrison showed some differences- and a brand new recording such as Joss Stone also showed similar differences. Overall probably more "refined" and natural sounding. The problem for me was that where the addition of the *cap on the CD5 yielded a "huge" readily noticable difference compared to the bare unit, I did not get that "slap in the face" difference when comparing the CDX2 vs the CD5/Hicap. Possibly the CDX2 also needs an external power supply in order to step up. Maybe I just don't get it.

Either way I am happy with my CD5 now. I have read some postings in which others praise the CD5/cap and feel that its performance is underrated on this forum when compared to the CDX2. I ended up walking away with quite a bit of respect for this little "gladiator".

Gregg

PS The HiCap is ordered- the funds which were saved will now go towards a future *cap for my Stageline- or maybe for the Nait- or who knows maybe for a nice Aro tonearm for the Linn.
Posted on: 28 June 2004 by Naimed-In-NY
quote:
Originally posted by ghunter:
The difference between CD5+hi and CDX2 becomes more obvious when you move up the preamp ladder.

It's a never-ending path...

Graham


I think Graham has a good point. I have no reason to doubt that Gregg heard what he did, and everyone has different tastes. I did a similar comparison, but instead of a Nait5, my dealer used the 200/202/PSC2 combo, which is what I have at home. To me, the CDX2 showed its superiority over the CD5/HC2 combo in a matter of seconds and was more than just a little bit better. (That being said, the CD5/HC2 did sound fantastic, and was markedly better than a bare CD5 or the CD5/FC2 combo.)

Gregg - If you did not hear a material difference, you probably should go for the CD5/HC2 combo. However, one suggestion - if you think you might be upgrading the Nait5 in the next year or two, you might want to go back to the dealer and do the same demo through a reference series amp/preamp combo. If you still think the difference is slight, stay with the CD5/HC2 combo. However, a better amp/preamp combo may highlight the differences between the two cd players a little more clearly (which only would be relevant if you plan to upgrade the Nait5). In any event, although I opted for the CDX2, I agree that the CD5/HC2 is a serious combo capable of producing excellent music.

Mike
Posted on: 28 June 2004 by glevethan
Mike
You make a very good point in reference to the Nait5 possibly being a limiting factor. It is similar to my first experiment with a HiCap placed on the Nait. By capping the Nait the performance of the preamp was brought up "one" level (my dealer claims that the addition of a HiCap is the equivalent of jumping up one level in Naims product line). As such a more "revealing" preamp made my bare bones CD5 sound even worse than before - while the LP12 benefited from having a better preamp - thus excentuating even more the difference between my vinyl and CD playback.

By placing the HiCap on the CD5 the CD playback noticibly improved and the vinyl playback remained the same ie my CD5 got a bit closer to giving me the joys that my LP12 gives me.

It is possible that the Nait is not capable of revealing all that the CDX2 has to offer. Don't get me wrong - I thought the CDX2 to be quite good - just not enough of a dramatic improvement over the CD5/HiCap to warrant my spending a considerable amount of extra dollars on.

A second audition of the CDX2, with a set of reference series preamp/amp combo, would be a good idea however I am not ready to take that step and leave my Nait (which is quite new). There is something to be said for "one" box - it takes up less room!

Gregg
Posted on: 28 June 2004 by ben r
the folks at Naim would say you should hear whatever differnces there are even thru a Nait,most people on this forum say the better the electronics the more it shows up...interesting...anyway glad you did the dem, after you have settled in with the cd5/hicap a good thing would be to try a cdx2 in your home, that would give you the clearest dem possible, be interesting to see what you find.
Posted on: 28 June 2004 by Bob Shedlock
If you do a search, you will find I wrote quite a bit a while back on the CDX2 v the CD5/Hi combination. Not only did I use the nait 5, but I also used an 82/napsc/supercap/250 and did the demo in-home over a period of months.

I did not find that the higher up the line 82/super made any difference in the outcome - I still prefer the CD5/Hi over the bare CDX2.

They are what they are and they do what they do and we like what we like. I don't think your opinion will necessary change w/ bigger or better preamps. The CD5/Hi is an incredible combination.
Posted on: 28 June 2004 by glevethan
Bob
I truly second that. The CD5/HiCap REALLY impresses me !!!

Gregg
Posted on: 28 June 2004 by Geoff P
Bob said:
quote:
They are what they are and they do what they do and we like what we like.


How true. Not just for the CD players but for all the Naim upgrades.
For example I used a HiCap on my 112/150 at one time and personally heard that was the right place in teh chain to get the most improvement.

What I have also found is that when I moved to the CDX2 I was able to hear a significant amount more detail and the musicality benfitted from the silent background. More importantly overtime the CDX2 has been used as the source, travelling in stages from that intial 112/150 system to having an XPS2 bolted onto it with a 282/SC2/250.2.
Each added component has wrought changes and revealed more detail with improvements in musical clarity and separation which was there in the source just waiting to be revealed by the improvements in the amplification chain.
The musicality has been a big quality fof the system at all times and garaunteed enjoyment. It is just that for me it became obvious that hidden depths are there in the CDX2 waiting to be revealed.

regards
GEOFF

Listening every day planning to "not fade away"
Posted on: 28 June 2004 by Bob Shedlock
Geoff - I certainly concur w/your experience that the quiet background of the CDX2 yields a greater sense of detail.

Under the heading of "we like what we like", I've yet to hear an HDCD chip that wasn't tonally dark. It has "character" and because of the way I'm constitued, it drives me nuts. Just a sensitivity thing I guess.
Posted on: 28 June 2004 by Simon Perry
Geoff,
Out of interest how long did you survive with an XPS2 through a 112/150 before you upgraded the amps? I am probably about to ditch my CD5 for an XPS2 as I find my Rega P25 TT is murdering my CD player, and therefore really undermining my enjoyment of my CD collection.
Simon
Posted on: 28 June 2004 by Geoff P
Simon

Sorry misleading paragraph in my mail. I actually bolted on the XPS2 last of all after first getting the 282/SC2/250.2.
I thought I had heard significant improvements when the SC2 was introduced (instaed of the hicaap running the 282) but the XPS2 was bigger than that sonically for me.
The best way to describe it's effect on the CDX2 was that the bass line became more defined and musical, little hidden details appeared and a feeling of freshness came into the higher frequencys. It certainly has become more "vinyl" sounding aswell.

Actaully I have succumbed now to the desire to get the CDS3 which by all accounts is another major musical jump.

regards
GEOFF

Listening every day planning to "not fade away"