Honda S2000

Top Cat
The Top Gear viewer car survey put it at No.1 for owner satisfaction.

Regards
Clive

Ah, thanks for that. Having spent some time with a couple of older S2000s (2000-ish vintage) I have to say that there are few cars which have the combination of usable power and in-town driveability, combined with sheer hoot-factor, so I can see why they're popular.

Even my beloved lady loves them.

Now, if only Honda would up that power to 270bhp or thereabouts, and supply it with 18" alloys as standard, I think they'd have a world-beater.

John

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Originally posted by Top Cat:
Ah, thanks for that. Having spent some time with a couple of older S2000s (2000-ish vintage) I have to say that there are few cars which have the combination of usable power and in-town driveability, combined with sheer hoot-factor, so I can see why they're popular.

Even my beloved lady loves them.

Now, if only Honda would up that power to 270bhp or thereabouts, and supply it with 18" alloys as standard, I think they'd have a world-beater.

John

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Ummmm.. I drove a mugen spec S2000 which was not a million miles from what you describe! Very tasty! but also rudely loud... huge induction roar and v deep exhaust note..

I would still rather have the Nissan 350Z!



Regards


NB

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I would still rather have the Nissan 350Z!

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Ditto

Regards
Clive

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and supply it with 18" alloys as standard, I think they'd have a world-beater.

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And how would that make it a better car?

Nearly got one a couple of years ago, but I concluded I didn't want to pay that much extra, compared to the Toy MR2 I bought, for just straight line speed. VTEC is fun, but my "everyday" car, a Civic type R, allready has it.

JohanR

I've driven the 2000 model that the Classic Car Club in Edinburgh had (the same car as you, Top Cat?). I thought that it was a race car engine in a boulevard cruiser chassis. The engine is fantastic, though - the best standard road car engine that I have come across. Why 18" alloys, though? The only point of big wheels is so you can fit big brakes, so unless you are going to fit bigger brakes....
I reckon the car looks good as it is - bigger wheels would be a bit too "Max Power" for me.

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I would still rather have the Nissan 350Z!

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Y'see, much as I'm sure the 350Z is a great car, I just don't like it's styling. Just a personal thing, don't hate me for saying it!

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how would that make it a better car?

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Only in appearance terms. The standard alloys don't look so good to my eyes. I believe the 2005-spec car has addressed this, though.

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I've driven the 2000 model that the Classic Car Club in Edinburgh had (the same car as you, Top Cat?). I thought that it was a race car engine in a boulevard cruiser chassis.

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Yes, that's one of the S2000s I've driven. Wouldn't agree about the chassis, but who's to say what kind of continued abuse it's received over the last couple of years. In any case, I found it to handle just fine (as compared to things like Boxsters, Minis, MX5s and all sorts of various things)...

Still think it's a great car...

John

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I would still rather have the Nissan 350Z!
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Y'see, much as I'm sure the 350Z is a great car, I just don't like it's styling. Just a personal thing, don't hate me for saying it!

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Like everything else John it's a personal matter which I respect. The Honda is a great car but I couldn't live with a car you have to rev the balls of to get any performance. The engine is my Nissan is so easy to use and there is real acceleration across the whole rev range. The six speed gearbox is a real delight to use.

I get great enjoyment from driving the Nissan but each to their own.



Regards


NB

Chaps

I seriously looked at this model about 6 months ago.

I drove the thing which was fine, but it was so low down, I literally could not get out of the thing, I was trapped inside and had to shout for assistance. Mrs Mick struggled to pull me out.

I decided not to buy it.

Regards

Mick

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Originally posted by JohanR:

And how would that make it a better car?

JohanR

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Shorter sidewalls on tyres mean considerably less twist when under load.

Deane

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Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Chaps

I seriously looked at this model about 6 months ago.

I drove the thing which was fine, but it was so low down, I literally could not get out of the thing, I was trapped inside and had to shout for assistance. Mrs Mick struggled to pull me out.

I decided not to buy it.

Regards

Mick

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Any photos of the event would be much appreciated

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Originally posted by Deane F:

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Originally posted by JohanR:

And how would that make it a better car?

JohanR

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Shorter sidewalls on tyres mean considerably less twist when under load.

Deane

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Sharper stearing and more grip, that why I am thinking of putting 20" wheels on the Jeep.



Regards


NB

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Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Mrs Mick struggled to pull me out.

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I take it your bike isn't getting much use then.

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Shorter sidewalls on tyres mean considerably less twist when under load.

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The suspension is very carefully fine tuned by the factory together with the original dimension of tyres. Changing the tyres to another dimension upsets this balance, and will most probably result in a worse handling car. It might FEEL like it's faster through the corners.

To me, big wheels with two turns of electrical tape looks extremely ugly. Why make it look like a bicycle...

JohanR

I beg to differ, Johan, as the suspension and tyre/wheel choice for most cars is dictated by a number of factors, and ultimate performance isn't usually one of them. Sure, meddling with different dimension wheels and tyres can be a fool's game, but the setup of suspension and suchlike is quite adjustable in the hands of an expert. The key is finding that expert. I am not one of them!

Do pay attention to the motoring press, and I think you'll find other factors for wheel and tyre choice include considerations of:

Ride quality
Wet-weather safety
Durability/Reliability
COnsistency
Cost
Part availability

...and a number of other factors come into play. Larger wheels normally imply lower profile tyres which can be more expensive, resulting in higher running costs. Coupled with that is the need for a larger spare, or space-saver. This eats into the small amount of space that is available in the S2000 boot. Larger wheels are also more prone to kerbing as the distance between road and rim is smaller.

Finally, there's the issue of 'Road Furniture' - especially speed bumps. A great handling car is also often a car which must be very, very carefully coaxed over the most benign of sleeping policemen.

However, notwithstanding, specialists can and often do improve over the factory offering - the classic example is the Cooper variant on original Minis - when the balance of compromises is re-prioritised and the available budget is altered in the favour of those compromises.

Rant off...

John

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but the setup of suspension and suchlike is quite adjustable in the hands of an expert. The key is finding that expert. I am not one of them!

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OK! Let's us play with the idea of letting an expert do a tuning for a choosen tyre. I would then, for ultimate grip on dry tarmac, choose a R-tyre (road legal race tyres), probably on some light weight Mugen wheels. To keep the unsprung weight low I would not go over the original wheel dimension (big wheels weigh considerably more), but choose a lower profile tyre and get a free lowering of the car!
Then the expert can do a setup (including other springs, shocks and bushings) for some serious Track Day driving...

Rant off...

Johan

Top cat is absolutely right, manufacturers have to deliver a car with the best 'real world' setup to cope with everyday road conditions.. It is afterall a road car! The S2000 and Type R do respond well to larger wheel tyre combinations in terms of ultimate grip and cornering, but in testing there was a considerable trade off in terms of road noise and to some uncomfortable amounds of feedback through the steering wheel... ie feeling and following the contours in the road surface. I personally dont mind that at all, its nice to know exactly whats going on, but customer feedback shows that a significant amount of people dont like it.. Once the spec is finalised the manufacturer goes through the Type Approval/homologation process. The spec cant then be significantly changed without going through the process again...


Johan, if your going the whole Hog with the Type R then i would stick with the overall tyre diameter as the way the car turns would be effected.. The touring car spec would be a nice starting point!

If your main aim is to improve the handling then I would be inclined to start with uprated dampers, improved location (bushes) and optimising the geometry before changing the wheels. This is likely to be cheaper and more effective than big wheels and tyres, but I guess it lacks the "bling" factor. I don't know about the S2000, but the Civic type R responds very well to a few geometry tweaks. I would always go for the smallest (and lightest) wheel that I could get away with - to reduce the unsprung weight.

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Originally posted by BLT:
If your main aim is to improve the handling then I would be inclined to start with uprated dampers, improved location (bushes) and optimising the geometry before changing the wheels. This is likely to be cheaper and more effective than big wheels and tyres, but I guess it lacks the "bling" factor. I don't know about the S2000, but the Civic type R responds very well to a few geometry tweaks. I would always go for the smallest (and lightest) wheel that I could get away with - to reduce the unsprung weight.

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Civic Type Bling... very scary!

http://www.maxpower.co.uk/car/history_template.asp?idArticle=2290

The S2000 also responds well to geometry tweaks, but is more sensitive to them than the Type R. For obvious reasons its set up on the safe side for road use, but it seems quite easy to cross the line and turn it into a bit of an animal, albeit a very exciting one! Ive experienced a shall we say 'interesting' backward moment with one on a test track..

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Johan, if your going the whole Hog with the Type R then i would stick with the overall tyre diameter as the way the car turns would be effected.. The touring car spec would be a nice starting point!

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Well, as our imaginary suspension expert would mess around with the stuff, he could compensate for this.

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I would always go for the smallest (and lightest) wheel that I could get away with - to reduce the unsprung weight.

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As the discussion has rolled over to CTR, I am using 16" wheels for the winter tyres on mine, a friend even managed to find 15" ones that just fitted!

I'm not going to do anything about it, it's good enough for the occasional Track Day (if not as good as the ATR I had before), on the open road the problem is more about the total lack of comfort (very noisy, "italian" driving position, rock hard suspension, only the very good seats saves it).

JohanR

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Is the Nissan available with its head chopped off and does this compromise the handling?
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Orders are being taken although Nissan have probably sold the whole of the first consignment. Delivery will be arround March next year.

The topless 350 will be approx 150 kg heavier and therefore isn't as quick or as agile as the hard top.

Still a very good car though.

Regards


NB

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I guess the S2000 is still a bargain compared to a new TTR 3.2V6 or a Boxter, but then again almost everyone says the Boxter is the THE handling small sports car.

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I have a friend to whom I gave an S2000 for a go. He loved it, so much so that he nearly bought one from the local Honda dealer. AT the last minute, he changed his mind as he really fancied a Porsche and had always wanted one. So he bought a nearly-new Boxster. Kept it two months, sold it again.

His words: big disappointment after the S2000.

He is now planning on getting an S2000. Food for thought...

John