R&B- Rhythm and Blues

Despite what these youngsters will tell you I'm with Richyh - it always has and always will be the likes of NBZ, GT, Georgia Satellites,the Pirates and Dr Feelgood and the like

Hi,

Rhythm & Blues started off as the term used to describe the music that was influnced by the jump blues of the late 40s. It had the tempo, drive & rhythm from the jazz swing & band era mixed with strong elemnets from the blues.

The music was a big hit with black Americans as it covered a lot of their feeling & emotions at the time. As the music progress, various artists added their own elements. This lead to a wide range of style being labeled as Rhythm & Blues. It soon became a label for comptemporary black music. The rise of the electric guitar lead to the classic sound of RnB which became popular in the UK.

Elements soon found itself in Rock 'n' Roll. e.g. the the rhytmic drive & the back beat. This lead to the music spreading around the world.

Vocal styling was on the up leading to the birth of soul. The birth of soul allowed the music to develop into many different directions. This made the old style Rhythm & Blues sound dated to the comtempoary black audience. They wanted somthing newer.

The term Rhythm & Blues was used to discribe black American music so from the early days, everything was lump under it. Billboard started a chart in the 40s when it noticed big sales of certain styles of music in black areas. I think it became the RnB charts in the late 40s.

The RnB term was use until the 60s when soul music took over. In recent times, 80s, contemporary black music was known as RnB.

RnB is a term to label black or black based music from or influenced by the US.

Dean

I'm bemused by this "stolen" definition, too.

A few years ago, when my youngest daughter was about 9 or 10, she announced that she was "really into R&B", I was delighted and started to reel off some names she ought to listen to. Of course, I was met with a blank expression only to be bewildered myself when she put on a CD of what she meant by R&B.

Fortunately she's expanded her musical horizons through my music and likewise I have through hers.

But tell me, what the f##k is "urban" supposed to be about. Does that mean that music by bands local to me (Keane are from the same village) should be described as "semi-rural"?

Dave

Hi,

The term Urban is a term used to group a few more recent styles of black music. It is used to label Hip Hop, UK Garage, Drum & Bass & modern RnB. If something gets called Urban, the music usually fits into one or more of these groups.

The term was used in the 80s to label the many forms of the(then) non mainstream black music.

Dean

Dean, your id here and the fact that you seem to know what you are talking about when it comes to black music, can you then explain the roots of disco music? The one popular in the 1970:s, that is. I've heard a couple of explanations, but none has convinced me.

JohanR

Hi, JohanR,

The roots of disco in the 70s came from the rise in the discotheque in the 60s. Places like the Peppermint Lounge in New York help to set the tone. This place got fame due to mix of people, from rich to poor, famous to non famous all mixing together. One thing that set it off was the dance called the Twist. Here was a dance that anyone could do. Even though the Twist was developed elsewhere a few years before, it didn't stop the Peppermint Lounge becoming the home of the twist.

The rise of dances like the Twist & the playing of records lead to a rise of clubs opening playing just records. There was a market for people just wanting to dance. Dances like the twist meant that you didn't need to be a brillent dancer or know complicated moves to enjoy yourself on the dancefloor.

In the 60s, saw the rise of Soul music which took on many forms. Uptempo slick sounds like Motown & gritty funky sound like Stax helped to supply a groove to dance to. The discos featured these types of music because you could dance to them quite well. By the late 60s, Funk was in full flow & this added to the mix. There were discos that played so rock music or any record as opposed to having a live band. But the ones that developed disco music played a diet of Soul & funk records.

In the 70s, discos were full of music that you could dance to. The records that were played at these discos became known as discotheque records. Discos like the Loft would play records from all sources to entertain the crowds.

As the 70s progressed, producers & artists made records that fitted into the flow of the discos. These had elements from the best soul, funk & pop records. The records had a groove so you could dance to it. These records became more and more popular and the ground breaking stuff was developed in New York underground scene. Records with a strong beat were popular. The music was mainly black based from the soul & funk areas of music.

Discos progressed due to the rise of the DJ using better techniques e.g. mixing & segues & better equipment such Technics SL1200s. Due to the need to keep the beat going for dancing, longer versions of song started to form.

Gloria Gaynor released an album in 1974 which the songs were segued together. This was done to give the album a disco feel. This was the start of the disco remix. Also there were singles that were remixed for the dancefloor. In this year disco music started to go over ground as an entity. Records like Gloria Gaynor - Never can say goodbye, K.C. & the Sunshine Band - Queen of Clubs, Hues Corporation - Rock the Boat & George McCrae - Rock your Baby all hit high in the pop charts & world wide. These all had elements of the best soul & funk sounds of yesteryear. Elements of Motown, Philly Soul, James Brown etc.

This lead to the movement rising more into the overground & pop market. The 12" single which came out in 1975, allowed for a more punchy sound & better sound quality that fitted the beat & groove that the records carried. Also long versions of songs. The disco mix took off.

The club disco scene developed & in turn so did the music. The underground scene was a mixture of gay & black clubs which drove the scene along.

After 1975, the music became known as disco music rather than soul or funk as it grew. Discos like Studio 54 & films like Saturday Night fever pushed it into the big league.

Alot of the main artists were black in disco music & had come from various music backgrounds. This all added to the rich choice of disco music. It is true that some of the big disco records were released by white people. But these people were influenced by black artists & black music or/& they worked with black artists.

To recap the roots of disco came heavliy from soul & funk music developed for more dancefloor action.

Dean

"Disco"'s discussion above is quite good, as far as it goes. But a key point that should be included in this discussion is that Disco became a marketing term and a "procrustean bed" into which almost all R&B/soul/funk artists were forced as the 1970's progressed. This shift was accompanied by a simultaneous change in the record and radio industries which virtually forced out anything which hadn't gone through the disco marketing filter. This is a complicated story and one worth learning about, but the bottom line is that many very fine soul/r&b/funk and jazz artists put out some total crap and, generally speaking, it was a major disaster to the careers of many fine bands. By the end of the 1970s disco was dead, there were a million crap disco records with a few rare very fine gems out there and the great soul & funk bands of the early 70's found their careers stalled.

Like I said above, this question is really beyond the scope of a post on this forum to do justice to.

Your question about R&B is very worthwhile and I'll try to post another message with my thoughts on that. First key point is that most of the bands you mentioned in your initial query wouldn't pass my personal criteria for R&B, but Prince and Usher (to mention two well known artists of the moment) would.

Markus
(Funk & Soul genre director for KWUR radio station, Washington University, St. Louis and erstwhile developer of the St. Louis Soul Archives)
--------

Hi Markus,

Good points there. I agree with a lot of them. When disco got big, it did force many R&B/soul/funk acts down that route. A number of these acts did fall by the wayside but this would have happened anyway. Black music has always been progressive. Some of these bands would have gone out of favour anyway due to one reason or another.

The rise of disco did mean that it became a big marketing tool for record companies. The 2nd half of the 70s showed this with a large number of rock & pop acts releasing disco records. It is very true that there were crap disco records but there are loads of very good ones. Some of the best ones came in the 2nd half of the 70s. In the USA, the 'Disco Sucks' movement helped to kill the scene off over there. But it didn't fully do it. The period from 79 to mid 80s produced the next wave of disco music which became known (over here) as dance music. This included Garage, House, disco, hip hop & leftfield disco. There was a widening of musical influences. Some of this music became big hits on the pop chart during this period.

A true look at disco would take more than a few lines to fully do it justice. My points just dipped into it a bit. But I do think it can be open to debate on this forum.

I will add some more points later, as I have got to go now.

regards

Dean

I am so knocked out by the knowledge here. This is great guys.

My understanding of R& B when I was growing up was initially that The Rolling Stones marketed themselves early on as R&B and by the time we got to the 70's, I understood people like Robert Palmer (Every Kind of People) & Kokomo were R&B. Of course I know now that this is probably incorrect, but I am equally sure that modern ballards that are labeled R&B are most certainly not. Or is it?

THANKS Rasher, I'm glad I not alone and, yet again we have the same thinking.

I'm starting a new thread of R & B recommendations

For those who may be interested in exploring the world of R&B and its two branches of soul and funk I'll be starting a new thread with some (IMHO) "can't miss" recommendations.

Markus

-------

Thank's Dean and Markus!

JohanR

If you stop to think about, a great many musical terms are actually pretty meaningless when it comes down to it, becuase they cover genres too broad to be covered sensibly by a single term. "Jazz" and "Classical" being two particularly sweeping terms.

These days "R&B" seems to mean a record made by someone where a member of the band is either black, or has met someone who is during their lifetime. And someone thinks that designating it as R&B might help it sell a few more copies.

Classic R&B would be golden age Motown, even though its roots are more in doo-wop than anything bluesy. It's just a label, not a description.

Pete.