Career advice re: MBAs

Top Cat,
Others' advice may differ but here's my opinion.
1. Everyone wants a strategy job, as they perceive that this is "sexy". They are very difficult to get and an MBA is only going to go so far. You will need to ace the MBA and get it from a good college to stand a chance in this field (at least for FTSE 250 companies or top consultancies).
2. Job security is not as good in this field as you might expect. I know 2 friends whose jobs were axed in the last 2 years from business development functions in plcs.
3. Having said all that, my colleagues who have done them report that intellectually speaking they are not hard to do, its just a matter of finding the time amongst your work, family and social commitments.
4. The person who is most satisfied with his choice to do an MBA did it not to change career / make more cash, but because he is constantly focused on self improvement and learning. He loved it. Another of my colleagues at PwC who did an MBA felt it wasn't really worth the bother, as it didn't open up the doors he was expecting.
5. Could you combine your IT experience with an MBA as a lead into IT Director type roles I wonder?

Good luck with whatever you decide. I think the only thing you can say for sure is that it helps to do really well at the course you choose, and also to get an MBA from a well respected institution. The Warwick Uni distance learning MBA seems pretty good.
Cheers
Simon

The intellectual content of a typical MBA is about as minimal as one would expect and to think of it as a learning experience is to rather miss the point. Really it's about positioning oneself and networking and parlaying the whole thing into a lucrative job offer. If you are going to do one, do a high profile one at somewhere prestigous and preferably not during a economic downturn.

Most MBAs I've met are fairly average individuals who spent a year and a lot of money turning a slightly disappointing £50k job into a slightly disappointing £65k job. The ones who got a lot out of it were obviously going places anyway and used the year to leverage themselves through 5-10 years of tedious career progression.

Matthew

PS Simon I also work for PrickswankersandCunts.

OT: On the subject of PwC - I was there from '97 to '99 as a freelance contractor, during the C&L -> PwC merger. I couldn't believe that any sane company could approve PricewaterhouseCoopers as a name - at least on typographic grounds only.

If I had a pound for every time I'd seen it split over a page, or 'split' to Price waterhouse Coopers, I wouldn't be needing to consider this MBA in the first place...

Thanks for thecomments so far. I'm still keen on the MBA idea obviously but I am having to do a whole lot of inner appraisal to work out whether it's what I really want, deep down. Call it a thirtysomething crisis. And a possible escape chute out of the perpetual inanity and turgidity of corporate IT...

The technical director point is well made, something that really would suit...

John

I know a number of IT professionals who've done MBA's and even considered one myself at one stage.

So far I've yet to see anyone really benefit from it career-wise. It might make getting a fat-5 consultancy position easier but business experience is always going to outweigh qualifications once you're over 30.

In the past a few of my staff have done MBA's (with relevant study leave etc.) but all found it a real struggle balancing work, study and homelife. In every case their work suffered badly and one person suffered a nervous breakdown.

Matthew,
I think that you can use it as a learning experience if you bend it to focus on the subject areas you are interested in. The friend that got a lot out of it used it to do research in sustainability/ CSR, and that, coupled with a lot of boozin' and schmoozin', got him what he wanted. Its also fair to say that the most unaware, hapless individual I have ever met in my whole life did an MBA.
Pity my PwC secret shame is now out. I will have to find another forum now...
Simon

I think that MBA's have significantly lost their kudos over the last few years.

They take a lot of work but the feeling amongst those who recruit, is that a MBA can be acheived by most people providing they put in an enormous amount of hours. Therefore they are not a barometer of intellect but more of tennacity.

If you apply for a job where MBA's are sort of useful, you often find yourself being asked to conduct on the spot presentations or other isometric tests and the MBA is unlikely to help you there.

More and more company's are asking for a track record of acheivement, so a good CV with plenty of checkable acheivements is far more useful.

Do it if you want knowledge but do not expect it to be a passport to a strategic role.

Regards

Mick

Amongst my friends and colleagues they are known as Master of Bugger All. But don't let me put you off.

I think AG's suggestion about taking a year off to do it full time is the best idea.

I have worked with someone who tried to fit in an MBA with a full time consultancy job (i.e. he was in the Dysfunctional team, working away from home 5 days a week and putting in very long hours. Well I think he was, I was in usually in the pub with the other developers in the evenings) then trying to fit in a family life at week-ends as well. He found it very hard going. He is the only person I know who has used the word 'leverage' as a verb in normal conversation when not talking about how to shift something heavy.

Its a big commitment either way and not worth entering into unless you are positive that it is worthwhile for you.

IF you try to fit it round work, life etc I hope your employer is sympathetic. I used to work for one of your employer's sister companies (the insurance one) who weren't interested in proper career progression, brown nosing was the order of the day there, for some reason I didn't fit in.

Good luck.

Most people with MBAs would know how to use the apostrophe though.

There's been an appalling outbreak of them today.

Tsk. Tsk.

Matthew

"I was there from '97 to '99 as a freelance contractor"

Ah the glory years. My bit of C&L made such an appallingly obscene amount of money the year before the merger that the Partners -- not generally the most philanthropic of people -- gave everyone an unplanned bonus. I just got a letter one morning saying "Dear Mattthew, Please have £10k".

Which was worth a "Woo! Yay!"

"I couldn't believe that any sane company could approve PricewaterhouseCoopers as a name - at least on typographic grounds only"

Or more to the point pay Wolf whathisface a few million quid to come up with it.

I annoyed lots of people by saying it very quickly rather in the style of Anne Robinson when she says "theWeakestLink" in that peculiar all-in-one-word manner.

Matthew

"There's been an appalling outbreak of them today".

Agreed. I assumed Mick had hit the malt quite early today.
Simon

Matthew,

quote:

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Most people with MBAs would know how to use the apostrophe though.

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Dave Barry's thesis is that the apostrophe is used by the business set mainly to alert readers that an "s" is coming up at the end of a word, as in We do not accept personal cheque's, or Not responsible for damage to any item's.

The business set also seems to have difficulty with quotation marks -- as seen in business signs where this punctuation mark is used seemingly randomly:

"TRY" OUR HOT DOG'S or, even better, TRY "OUR" HOT DOG'S.

Joe

Top Cat,

I agree with a lot of what's been said here. My experience and advice is...

MBA
I have a BS engineering and when I was 27 did an MBA (full-time) to change careers. The MBA itself was time-consuming but not difficult especially compared to a technical degree. Instead of focusing on classes I networked a lot, took leadership roles in clubs, attented forums and speaker events, and did various marketing projects for nearby companies. Those things, and getting one "take-away" from each class session to use years later made it worthwhile. I'd recommend the same approach, to help pick up "real" skills, make you more marketable, and to test things learned in class before getting a real job.

Post-MBA
"Business strategy": you won't be doing it upon graduation unless you get a degree from Harvard or equivalent, or if you work for a small company. Think of the MBA as launching you into a new field and also giving you strategic skills to use later. But there are jobs in product management and marketing where you can do product-specific strategy, and MBA's get those all the time (I had one and quit!). With these jobs comes regular visibility among executive management which can be great for career advancement. It's a choice to consider, especially given your tech background.

PS- Also consider whether you'll be able to cope with stereotypical MBA students (not very worldly, conservative, enjoy discussing money, etc). This was a challenge for me and I had no choice but to become an alcoholic for 2 years.

What Ross said.

quote:

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An MBA is also a clear indication that you're a greedy, narrow minded person with little interest in the arts or sciences beyond those applicable to buying a Porsche. This was fashionable in the 80s (can that really be two decades ago?) but now it is transparent and unattractive and I go out of my way to avoid MBA graduates at parties.

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Point taken - but perhaps the MBA graduates spot you first? Anyway, like the oilman quote.

You haven't put me off but I've no aspirations to be greedy, only that when you work for an organisation where being good at your job is the kiss of death for career progression (and I can see their point - why promote a good person out of the role they're good at?) you start to look at ways to improve and move on. An MBA is one of these which (whether we like it or not) puts ones name somewhat before others' names in the queue (all else being equal).



John

"only that when you work for an organisation where being good at your job is the kiss of death for career progression"

The implication is that you work for an organisation that stifles ability and promotes incompetance. Therefore, they are probably doomed and you would be well advised to look for another job.

(Which is half serious: if you have the high levels of ability you claim but are stymied in your current position for one reason or another the easiest way to leverage your ability and experience is to get another job.)

Matthew

I think that is also a rather self-defeating attitude Patrick as it effectively says that one's own success is a product of the organisation one works for and other external factors rather than one's own ability. For sure often things are out of your control to some extent but in my experience very able people who aspire to senior and leadership roles tend to find a way somehow.

They are not, generally, the sort of people who get steered by the recruitment process into the same job for more money.

Also TopCat's best chance clearly isn't where he is currently becuase he just said he had no chance to progress due to being so valuable in his current role.

Matthew

Hi all,

Matthew wrote:

>The intellectual content of a typical MBA is about as minimal as one would expect and to think of it as a learning experience is to rather miss the point. Really it's about positioning oneself and networking and parlaying the whole thing into a lucrative job offer.<

Here in the U.S. this is incorrect. I have a BSc in Pure and Applied Physics from Manchester (England) and am currently doing an online MBA (I travel 4-5 days per week)in global business at the University of Dallas, TX. I was surprised how intense even the GMAT entrance exam was and the course itself is, on the whole quite intellectually challenging (with some caveats for certian courses). I've just finished my first year and had decided at the beginning to take my 'nemesis' courses first. These were Macro Economics, Statistics (tough one), and Management Accounting (which included a large chunk of financial accounting). I just (last weekend) took the final exam for the last nemesis course and eagerly (?) await my grade for it.

At UTD I need 45 credit hours (approximately 675 'calssroom' hours) to complete the course. At the rate of 2 courses per semester I have about a year and 4 months left.

I must confess though, at the orientation evening for new inductees my first thought was "Oh bugger, what have I done? These people are really smart." However, meeting all of the young fresh totty soon had me smiling again.

Interestingly, even though I work for an engineering company, they wouldn't pay for my schooling (and they pay ALL expenses) unless I did a business MBA. Hopefully I'm being groomed for greatness ;-))

I'm enjoying it and, somewhat perversely I actually miss the evening work at times such as now when we're between semesters. My recommendation would be to go for it, Top Cat.

Best Regards,
Mark Dunn