wonderful and useless noise from NAC52
Posted by: Jorg on 27 September 2000
Hi all,
I am currently 'testing' a NAC52 with NAP180 at home to replace my old Linn amplification. The sources are CDX and LP12, the speakers are Cabasse Iroise.
As expected, it sounds great und I am amazed by the incredible musicality and accuracy of the amplifiers. BUT- there is a very audible (pinkish) noise that mixes with the quiet passages in classical music. The noise only dissapears when the NAC52 is on 'mute', suggesting that it originates there. I would guess that the high efficiency of the Cabasses (93 dB) is in part responsible for this noise. But the DBL (92 dB efficiency) should not be that different. So I am wondering:
Is something wrong? What could it be?
Is another amplifier combination better for me?
Do you just try to get used to it?
Help from people with efficient speakers is much appreciated! I would hate to let this amplifier go. Thanks,
Jorg Degenhardt
And yes- I want to keep the Cabasses since they are the only speakers I found that do string instruments exactly right. This is important to me, an enthusiastic hobby cellist.
Posted on: 27 September 2000 by Bas V
I have had the same experience with a Nait 3 and Synthese speakers (93dB). With lower efficiency speakers (<89dB) the noise became inaudible!
Gr. Bas
Posted on: 27 September 2000 by Greg Beatty
...on your Graduation, Rob.
Just remember that Vuk almost got tossed for using too many faces in his posts 
- GregB
Freedom is not in finding the Holy Grail but in stopping the search for it
Posted on: 27 September 2000 by Jorg
And harmless me
thought I was going to hear about noise. Thanks anyway! Maybe there is still a resident DBL owner who can tell me whether they hear some low but easily recognizable noise in a good 3 m (10ft) distance? Cheers,
Jorg
Posted on: 27 September 2000 by Greg Beatty
Posted on: 27 September 2000 by David Dever
quote:
The noise only dissapears when the NAC52 is on 'mute', suggesting that it originates there.
There exist two stages in the NAC 52 (input buffer > volume/balance > output drive stage) which sit between the "listen" input relays (all de-activated when you MUTE) and the output relays (activated after about six or seven seconds after SUPERCAP turn-on, unaffected by front panel operations).
Essentially, this implies that the NAC 52 output stage is functioning regardless of front panel selection or volume (and thus not the source of the noise). Perhaps you should check your source, or recording, to verify the origin of the noise.
Dave Dever, NANA
Posted on: 28 September 2000 by Ian P
Quote:
_____________________________________
They can't toss me, I own this forum.
_____________________________________
BTW would you mind being tossed off by Ms Fox ? 
Posted on: 28 September 2000 by Mark Packer
My KEF104/2s have an efficiency of 92db. There is also a pink noise type hiss just audible when there is no music playing.
It irritates my wife more than me; I tend to notice it's absence rather than presence, so we leave the 82 mute on all the time except when listening. Perhaps it is the speakers efficiency and your younger ears.
∞
regards,
MarkÊ
Posted on: 28 September 2000 by Andy S
quote:
Maybe there is still a resident DBL owner who can tell me whether they hear some low but easily recognizable noise in a good 3 m (10ft) distance?
No noise.
Andy
CSD/52/2x135/DBL.
Posted on: 28 September 2000 by Arthur Bye
Vuk Quote:
quote:
Typically, I read, listen to music, toy with numbers a bit, play basketball, keep in touch with my audio e-buddies, cook and drink. Occasionally, I try to "f...", watch a bit of TV and, once in a while, build, renovate or create something. What do you do all day long?
So Vuk, does this mean you're now retired? Or maybe you are on permanent disability?(that would explain a lot)
Arthur Bye
Posted on: 29 September 2000 by Paul Stephenson
"buy an active ATC system"
Yes I am biased but are you sure?? why not consider ATC with another companies electronics! we have had some not so good stories and sounds coming from the all in one job!
Posted on: 29 September 2000 by Paul Stephenson
"What are the negative things you are referring to? I also asked the dealer"
Sounds as though you have done your home work! I think you are in the best place to judge, we know ATC they are a good company, I do not think the sound they make active or passive is my cup of tea as they say! but it is certainly better than alot I have heard.
The specific problems we heard related to active systems, set up and performance a couple of years ago,BUT IN ANY ONE instance this could also have happened to Naim products. I am sure it has!
Posted on: 30 September 2000 by David Dever
Perhaps you should examine the possibility of using a NAC 52 (with SUPERCAP power supply) to feed the inputs of the active ATCs (SCM 50 or 100)...there already exist here in the States a few customers who have gone this route with reasonable success, preferring the 52's performance to that of the ATC standalone preamplifier (note: you will need a pair of DIN-4 to XLR-3 cables, wired with floating shield/pin 2 hot, made up for the system).
Hope this helps,
Dave Dever, NANA
Posted on: 01 October 2000 by David Dever
Florian-
"Reasonable success": I prefer the sound of my tri-amped DBLs to the amp-packed ATC 100s with the same front end--possibly due to the compromises inherent in stuffing three channels of amplification (and a transformer) behind a 12" bass driver (and magnets) inside a massive cabinet (though practical for soffit-mounted use in a recording studio).
Dave Dever, NANA
Posted on: 01 October 2000 by David Dever
Florian--
If you compare, at the same price, active DBLs with 250s and a SUPERCAP to a comparable ATC system, you STILL end up with an outboard series of boxes (SCM 200/300A amp packs).
Dave Dever, NANA
Posted on: 30 November 2001 by Simon Crosland
quote:
Originally posted by David Dever:
(note: you will need a pair of DIN-4 to XLR-3 cables, wired with floating shield/pin 2 hot, made up for the system).
Why the floating shield? Both the DIN and XLR have shields, and certainly in my world (pro audio) it would be customary to start with the shield fully connected unless there was a proven grounding problem that needed to be resolved (temporarily!) in which case the destination shield would be lifted.
Simon
Posted on: 30 November 2001 by Greg Beatty
...Naim electronicts to be too noisy with Avante Garde Duo (horn) speakers. Don't know about others.
- GregB
Insert Witty Signature Line Here
Posted on: 15 October 2003 by jeff koons
To Richard Woo,
Efficiency of Cabasse speakers are usually around 91db to 93 db, depending from their size. Naim top speakers NBL & DBL show a sensivity of 92db, so I doubt you are correct.
Posted on: 15 October 2003 by Jorg
its fun to see this ancient thread surface again. I did not realize it got so weird back then! The forum really seems to go through phases.
Since then, I learned more about the combination of Naim with Cabasse. To my ears, the tweeter of the Iroise (~92dB concentric tweeter/midrange design) lacks a little control with the occasional strong signal in the very high treble. I thought that this roughness might contribute to the bright hiss when connected a 52 with a 180 or 135 (a little less with a 500). Nevertheless, I got used to the hiss and loved this combination for its musical virtues.
Interestingly, the triple concentric designs by Cabasse have a perfectly controlled tweeter and a much lower level of hiss despite a higher (93.5 dB) efficiency. This makes me think that it is not just efficiency but construction and frequency response of the speaker.
Jor
Posted on: 15 October 2003 by Jim J
I use Kef Refence 4.2s and although they are large speakers they have a sensitivity of 92db. I can easily hear the hiss when the music is not playing anywhere in the room.
Mostly the hiss is inaudible from the listening position when the music is playing. However the hiss can be intrusive during quiet passages when the music is playing at a low level (e.g. at night when the kids are in bed).
It's not as loud as the mechanical transformer buzz when the mains is bad though! When it's partularly bad the mechanical buzzzzzzzzz can be loud enough to hear over the music. This is much more irritating!
Does anyone know if the new kit hisses as much as the olive stuff?
Jim J
Posted on: 17 October 2003 by Stevo
quote:
Originally posted by Florian Härb:
...still try to find a decent Sushi place in London (God, I miss New York!)...
Florian,
Try Miyabe on Liverpool Street.
Stephen.
