LP12 vs/or CD-3.5/flat- or HiCap

Dear Alco,
Me and my mate both have LP12s and CD3s
With an Akito arm and K9 cartridge (why not get a goldring?) an LP12 will give a CD3.5 a run for it's money but will not out perform it.{try it with a goldring)
However, with an Ittok arm and dynavector 10x4 cartridge, it will poo from a great height on a CD3.5.

I've only heard a 3.5 at dems - in (almost) the same system that I have at home, with and without a hi-cap - but my Valhalla'd LP12 with Akito and K5 (with a metal K9 body) is more musical rhythmic and involving by a very, very, very long way. Tugs at the heartstrings, sets your foot tapping and puts a big smile on your face. Then there's the huge upgrade potential ( arms, power-supplies, cartridges ) which the 3.5 can't begin to match. One local dealer I spoke to used to dem the 3.5 against the lesser Rega's and reckons they beat it as well. Probably depends what you want from your music.
If you possibly can you should try to hear the deck in your system before buying, but if it's well set up I doubt you'd be disappointed. I paid another local dealer £250 for my (mint condition, non-cirkus) deck with a basik arm. I already had the Akito.
I don't think Linn make the K5 anymore, and the new K9's have a plastic body. But I've tried the Goldring 1042 on my Linn Basik turntable andgoing back to the K5 seemed like an improvement in musicality and cohesion at the expense of a bit of detail and sparkle. It was also a bit awkward aligning the 1042 in the Akito- not much room at the back without bending the little connectors on the cartridge leads. Awkward but possible. I'm told Naim had Linn MM's in mind when they designed the 32/72 MM phono boards.
You may not agree with any of this - Keven obviously doesn't - but I reckon you should try it out if possible.

Cheers,
David

Alco,

The LP12 comes in 3 (Linn) power-supply variants - Basik, Valhalla or Lingo. If you get the Valhalla deck, you are off on a good start. I must agree with Keven that the Akito is a limiting factor, but you've got to start somewhere. I wonder if you can't find a Valhalla deck with an Ittok arm for just slightly more money.

FWIW, my LP12 has an Ittok arm, Lyra Lydian MC and Naim Armageddon PSU. This setup is appreciably better in almost every way than my CD2, and I'd imagine that it'd be on par with CDX/XPS (but not heard yet).

According to my dealer, it'll be hard to pick between an LP12/Armageddon/ARO/Prefix/Supercap/(+ top cart) and CDS2 for outright musical performance. So in the scale of things, a basic LP12 is probably comparable to your CD3.5. Enjoy the LP12 experience.

James

A well-functioning LP12 (accurately set up, good bearing and power supply) with an Akito that still has life left in the bearings will piss all over anything below a CDX/XPS. With an Ittok, it will hold its own with the CDS-level machines.

All that is based on musical values/involvement, unless one has a major objection to record noise. If you really hate record noise, you're SOoL and will prefer a CD player.

although I'd be the first to recognise the quality possible with vinyl, I'd be very cautious about starting down that road today.

This is only worthwhile if you look around your area and find loads of discs available, at the right price, that you'd love to own.

cheers, Martin

If you do decide to go the way of the vinyl (or if you are out there looking for new LP's) check out this site:

www.diverse-music.co.uk

They seem to get a decent amount of the new mainstream/ rock/ indie stuff that appears.

Cheers

Jason

Alco,

the CD3.5 player will beat the LP12 in between the tracks (perfect silence, no scratch noise).
But as soon as the music comes up, then it will obvioulsly be trounced by the LP12(even with Akito/K9 only).

Go for the LP12 at that price it is a bargain if in good shape...2nd Hand LP can be found; brand new ones as well if you listen to rock music.

regards

jean-christophe

I think this TT is a 2nd hand bargain and generally will trounce most CD players. I have a LP12/Ittock/Circus/Lingo/OC9 and it more than lives with a CDS 11. With any CD player you will always get a degree of digital glare - vinyl has its faults but they are generally benign and alluring! Go for it as there is plenty of vinyl available both new and 2nd hand.

Alco

I'd agree with Martin.

I recently thought long and hard about getting another LP12 and decided against it.

About 5 years ago I sold my LP12/Ittok/MC30s and all of my records, having made what turns out to be an incorrect assessment that vinyl would no longer be available by now. At that time, I was watching a very quick decline in the availability of new vinyl where I lived, so I started buying secondhand, but most of these turned out to be poor quality. It was a very frustrating time. I know others claim to be happy with secondhand albums but it didn't work for me. Given the circumstances I believe I made the correct decision in selling the LP12. However, the mistake I made was in selling my records. Had I not done this I would still have a decent collection and I know that I can still get new rock albums. Also, now that I live in a different part of the UK, I would probably have a better chance at secondhand ones too.

It doesn’t matter how much you can get an LP12 for. You must ensure you can buy good quality vinyl first. As long as you can do this then get the LP12, it’s a great deck. If you can’t get the vinyl then forget the LP12.

Brian

Hi Alco,

To make life more complicated, I saw Hartmut Quashick is selling his LP12 + ARO tonearm for 3.000 DEM.

Ciao!

Willem

Alco, if I were you I would go for this.. its a steal. I don't know what the situation is in Holland with used Vinyl, but here in the UK there is loads around, and overall fairly good quality. There are also loads of web sites you can buy, usually very reliably from..

What I can say is that my vinyl system (Linn/Armageddon/Aro/DynavectorXV1/Supercap) produces much better music that my CDS2. I realise that these vinyl components add up to being overall (not significantly) more expensive than the CDS2/XPS, but this CD setup is, in my opinion, the best by a long way that I have heard, - so the comparison is fair, and also it is not mean't to be any criticism of the CDS2. I also think that other price points also bear the same comparison (eg, the same points of comparison being made between CD 3.5 or CD5 and less expensive vinyl setups).

However, at some time you might want to invest in or at least have access to a record cleaner if you end up buying a lot of used stuff (or even new for that matter!). I have just recently invested in a VPI 16.5 machine and listened to some some Deutsche Gramaphon and EMI classical albums that I first bought 35 years ago, after cleaning them. I had not listened to them for quite a while and I was totally amazed at how fresh and how natural they sounded.. they put modern recordings to shame. I am now trawling through the rest doing the same... ( only a couple of hundred to go...).

Go for it mate - you wont regret it...

Ton

The stereo system gives you pleasure and the level of pleasure is to my mind the factor to consider where the money goes (and I have a CDI and LP12).

You have 400 CDs - hundreds hours of pleasre, 25 LPs - almost nothing. Put the money in the place that can give you more pleasure - your primary listening is CDs and that is the place to put the money on.

Arie

Arie,

The economics says get the LPs - at least at US prices. At $2/LP vs $18/CD, it'll be easy to make up the gap between 400 and 25. My understanding is that CDs in England are more expensive than the US.

Phil

Phil,

It is not that easy, first you never stop buying CDs even when you have a TT and you can't buy all kinds of music with LPs.
Secondly, old recordings which is the most pupular to buy with vynils, is very cheap and easy to get on CDs (at least here in Israel).
Old records from the 70s and 80s on cds, are in Israel for the price of less than 10 US $.

So if a person has a high quality cd player, and has no records and TT, I don't think it is wise to put the money on a TT INSTEAD of IMPROVING his cd player quality.

Arie