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Understanding CDSII - CDX/XPS Differences

Posted by: John on 23 September 2000

I am trying to understand the difference between the CDSII and the CDX/XPS.
My friend has given me his CDSII when he is on vacation. To confuse things
a little I recently purchased a Mana stand.

Without the stand the CDSII clearly provides more information from the performance
than the CDX which sounds more mechanical. The Mana stand significantly improved
the CDX's performance and the missing information suddenly appeared. The stand
helped the CDSII's performance but no where to the degree of the CDX. I believe the
CDSII has a supsension system (I hear it tick, tick when I move the player) that in
theory would help it.

At first I put on the CDSII and tried different kinds of music. I am normalized to the
CDX so my immediate impression was that something was missing. The pase of the
music seems slower and a more relaxed feel. After listening to many CD's I found I wasn't
emotionally captivated by what I was hearing. I wanted to go back to my CDX.
Going back the excitment was there again. I am confused now! What is going on?

My impressions are the CDSII has a more balanced sound field and the information
where the instruments meet is resolved better with the CDSII giving it a more continuous
flow. Analogue feel??? The CDX doesn't seem to resolve this information and hence cuts
it off making the instruments sound more seperate which gives it a higher contrast presentation.
The CDSII seems to bring out the rythm in the lighter instruments while the CDX focuses
on the more dominent instruments. The CDSII sounds perfect with vocals but I question the
timing and attack on instruments. It sounds like the musicians are sitting down and very relaxed
when they play. When I listen to rock music this doesn't seem natural. The CDX sounds perfect for
attack and timing but doesn't bring out the same smoothness of the vocals. The CDSII seems to emphasize
the beginning of a note and the sustain of the note while the CDX emphasises the attack on the note.
I know the CDSII has less distortion because I can turn the volume up higher without fatigue.

I am curious if the CDSII really needs the 52 to show it off ?? I am a little put off by the slower
feel. My system is an 82/Supercap/135's/SBL's. Do I have an accurate take on the differences
or do I need to adjust how I am listening to the music.

John

Posted on: 25 September 2000 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
John,

I have tried 2 home demos of a CDSII, and finally received mine just over a week ago. Warm up is absolutely crucial. I know many people have said that the CDSII sounds great out of the box. To my ears, I can hardly tell the difference between the CDSSII and my old CDI. However, having left permanently playing for 3 and a half days, the sound totally changes. The difference is now so great I find it hard to compare how much better the CDSII is. So my advice is give it some more warm up before the final comparison. I don't think it will ever have the attack of the old CDS or the CDX/XPS, but you get so much more in return.

David

Posted on: 25 September 2000 by Former member
John,
Your views on the CDX/XPS vs CDS2 are broadly similar to my own. I've tried the CDS2 vs my CDX/XPS. Both players were on Mana phase 4 and the XPS was also on Mana phase 4. Amplification 52/SCAP/135's all on Mana phase 4. Speakers SBL's on Mana phase 2. The CDS2 is definately more detailed but at the end of the day for all that I felt it had lost some of the timing, rythmn and attack of the CDX. I decided that for the cost I was not prepared to lose those aspects of the music that I value the most and have stuck with the CDX (which is now on phase 6).

Regards

Neil

Posted on: 25 September 2000 by Arye_Gur
Bob Atherton,

Naim dealer in Israel is Eilan Tamir - he lives
in Haifa and his phone is 04-8241422
cell 050-445544

Linn dealer are in Jerusalem two nice persons
Efi and Amit and their phone -
02-5387296
02-5383543

If your friend wants to buy a s/h Linn, I trust
Eilan (Naim) to check and tune it as he was several years Linn dealer, he knows very well Linn
turntables and he is the best pro in the stereo
equipment available in Israel - that is my opinion.

Can you arrange for me a visit at a recording studio ?
Arie


[This message was edited by Arie_Gur on MONDAY 25 September 2000 at 15:16.]

Posted on: 25 September 2000 by David Antonelli
All this still seems strange to me. In my system the CDS 2 - after some warm up - TKO'd the CDX/XPS into oblivion, the differences were so profound.
"I don't know how anything could be so powerful, yet so refined. An iron fist in a velvet glove"

Robert parker comparing 1996 Vogue Musigny to Chateau Margaux.

...and now to the CDS 2.

Make sure you have 135s, a 52, and some decent fast speakers or a headline/hicap with good phones. Then go out and buy "Rhythm and Stealth" by Leftfield and then listen to "Dusted" on full blast.

Only then will you know the truth!

Big Priest!
Check the guy's rock record...

Posted on: 25 September 2000 by John
For David:

I since have switched back to the CDX/XPS and played with my speaker placement in an attempt to make the CDX sound better. I moved the speakers a little closer together and about 2cm further from the wall. This has helped the vocals to make them sound more similar to the CDSII's. I had the same experience when I purchased my supercap (I had to rearrange my speakers)

I will put the CDSII back on again and try to be patient for the results you are talking about. I have about 1-1/2 weeks before I need to give it back. For now I wouldn't want to lose the slam effect of the CDX. I am waiting for the CDSII to open up another aspect of the music, so far it hasn't.

Without the mana stands the CDSII is much better and worth the 5K upgrade. The mana seems to resolve 90-95% of the sound differences are resolved. I only have a 2 tier amp stand for another 420US I can go to phase 2???

Has anyone heard the difference from stage 1 to 2 with a CDX??? I am also using the second table for my 82, any thoughts on whether the XPS or supercap should go on it vs. the 82???

John

Posted on: 25 September 2000 by David Antonelli
John,

I don't use SBLs, but certainly with these speakers and 135s your system should be up to it. But maybe you need a 52. I'm not sure. When I had a 102/supercap/180 I actually prefered the naked CDX to the CDX/XPS which seemed kind of oafish in comparisson. When I got the 52 and great stands I tried the XPS again and found that it was a noticeable improvement and I was happy with it. However, a few months after that XPS (last november) I stopped listening to my CD player as at times it again seemed a bit crass in comparisson to my wee little nat 03. Craving that analogue sound I guess. Without my WB stands the CDX/XPS sounded like something fashioned in some bleak subteranea - ie. much much worse.

It was only when I got the CDS 2 that all became lemon pie and brambleberries and I've never looked back. The CDS 2 continues to rule the floor and open up new musical landscapes in my apartment. The bass is deeper and more open and the mid range (what an amazing mid range!) just bristles and pops with excitement. My girl friend and I are both converts. She is a proud anti-audiophile but in spite of this I notice her sometimes staring, mouth agape into my albions from about 15 feet away as she sits with a book in her lap trying to read when the music is so utterly captivating that it pulls her away from her book time and time again.

Maybe its that 52 showing its pedigree.

Daveˇ

Posted on: 25 September 2000 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
My CDSII is running of the 82 and 2 x hicaps. The fluidity and anlaogue sound is very noticable, and very different to CDS/XPS. The difference is very noticable, but, I have found that the player has to be left playing for a long time (80-100 hours) before this expresses itself - before this it probably does sound worse than CDX/XPS.

David

Posted on: 25 September 2000 by John
The CDX and CDSII seem to be working
from the same picture but presenting a different emphasis. I like
the analogy of a photograph or TV image. The CDSII has a very
flat picture image which makes the sutle details more obvious
and the immediate impression is there is more information. The
CDX has a higher contrast picture which emphasizes the central
image vs. the outer details. For some reason the higher contrast
picture also emphasises the energy of the performance better.
I believe the true picture has both. Arthur Bye mentioned that
there are posting on the Mana forum which JW and others
prefer the CDS1 to the CDSII for the reasons I have been
stating. Interesting because maybe the CDS1 might have a
better balance on this issue.

I don't believe the auguement that the CDX just can't reproduce
the correct pacing because it's not as refined as the CDSII.
I have owned 2 YBA players and even the cheapest player
didn't have problems rendering this slower pace. It has to be
a decision of the manufacturer. I believe there is a trade off
between dynamics and the sutle detail information which
seems to give this analogue feel. The CDX uses the dynamics for its pacing while the CDSII uses the sutle information for its pacing.

John

Posted on: 26 September 2000 by Former member
As I have been mentioned by Martin Payne; you may as well have my personal input!
Forget all the nonsense about CDX/XPS being preferable to a CDS2. What you are hooking into is an artificial 'edge' or glare to the sound which makes it sound exciting.

The better player presents the music as opposed to throwing it at you. It is just as exciting, but layers the sound, so that the lead instruments or vocals do not dominate the sound.

The CDS2 has superior soundstage, depth and generally more information. It also controls the bass much better and sounds generally more powerful. If it wasn't better; Naim wouldn't make it or sell any!

It is; as those nice people at Linn used to say 'Simply Better'

If you genuinely prefer the sound of CDX/XPS, something is wrong with the rest of the system.

Thanks Martin for the offer of the 'Mana' but I think it's a swear word at Naim!

Thanks to the Naim guys at the show for affording us anoraks the opportunity of the closed door session. Nice to meet other similarly sick and twisted individuals.(I was there on Sunday with THE Martin Payne). I'll have you know; he charges for autographs round these parts!

For your general inflammation and fulfillment; I run CDS2/82/Supercap/Passive 135's/SBL's and a REL Stadium 3.

I even have a few CD's.