Four more years: The madness begins
Posted by: Stephen Bennett on 04 November 2004
One of Bush’s 'global warming' advisors was speaking on the Today program this morning. He suggested that there was no evidence of global warming and that 'other countries' were using the issue as part of a world wide conspiracy to reduce the competitiveness of US businesses. When asked why so many scientists were convinced of climate change he replied, to an obviously astonished John Humphries, that US scientists were 'more independent' as they weren't funded by government - unlike Europe, for example.
I'm not concerned about pensions anymore.
Stephen
I'm not concerned about pensions anymore.
Stephen
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by justiceklopper
this is very saddening.
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by Stephen Bennett
I was surprised that JH didn't ask about the majority of US scientists who do accept climate change. But I think he was as dazed by the audacity of the interviewee as I was.
Still, with a creationist in the white house it's only to be expected..
Stephen
Still, with a creationist in the white house it's only to be expected..
Stephen
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by matthewr
Or indeed why a scientist currently enjoying the Amoco Chair of Environmentalology at The Haliburton University of Science might be considered more independent than someone with public funding.
The UK has the G8 Presidency next and Blair has signaled his intention to use it to pursue the problems of Global Warming and the Israel-Palestine conflict. Bush's re-election pretty much put an end to that in any meaningful manner.
Matthew
The UK has the G8 Presidency next and Blair has signaled his intention to use it to pursue the problems of Global Warming and the Israel-Palestine conflict. Bush's re-election pretty much put an end to that in any meaningful manner.
Matthew
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by Mekon
I wonder if there is a single environmental scientist who doesn't believe that human activity is playing a role in global warming, and isn't either taking oil money or is trying to publicise a crackpot theory.
I've not looked hard, but each time someone pops out of the woodwork, their ulterior motives are obvious.
I've not looked hard, but each time someone pops out of the woodwork, their ulterior motives are obvious.
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by Rasher
quote:
Originally posted by Mekon:
I wonder if there is a single environmental scientist who doesn't believe that human activity is playing a role in global warming, and isn't either taking oil money or is trying to publicise a crackpot theory.
I know of one geologist, a professor at the Imperial College, London who believes that global warming does not exist. Really.
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by Paul Ranson
quote:
I was surprised that JH didn't ask about the majority of US scientists who do accept climate change.
What majority?
And what does 'climate change' mean? I think we ought to be clear about definitions, if we're talking science rather than politics.
I assume you use 'climate change' as a euphemism for 'increasing carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere as a consequence of human activity will lead to significant rises in global temperatures leading to substantial environmental disruption'?
Paul
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by JonR
A certain David Bellamy, wemember him? 
, wrote a piece in the Dail Mail a few months ago saying pretty much that global warming has been hyped up way out of proportion and that how do we think plants and trees survive if we didn't have more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere?
Don't know if he has any 'ulterior' motives though...
jon
, wrote a piece in the Dail Mail a few months ago saying pretty much that global warming has been hyped up way out of proportion and that how do we think plants and trees survive if we didn't have more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere?Don't know if he has any 'ulterior' motives though...
jon
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by matthewr
Talking of madness, here's a picture of Neo-con pin-up girl Ann Coulter:
<shudder>
Matthew
<shudder>
Matthew
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by matthewr
"A certain David Bellamy, wemember him? Winker, wrote a piece in the Dail Mail a few months ago"
Which led to an article in the Graun by George Monbiot and and some correspondance between the two
"Like every impending disaster (think of the rise of Hitler or the fall of Rome), this one has generated a voluble industry of denial. Few people are now foolish enough to claim that man-made climate change isn’t happening at all, but the few are still granted plenty of scope to make idiots of themselves in public. Last month they were joined by the former environmentalist David Bellamy.
Writing in the Daily Mail, Bellamy asserted that “the link between the burning of fossil fuels and global warming is a myth.”(9) Like almost all the climate change deniers, he based his claim on a petition produced in 1998 by the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine and “signed by over 18,000 scientists”. Had Bellamy studied the signatories, he would have discovered that the “scientists” include Ginger Spice and the cast of MASH.(10) The Oregon Institute is run by a fundamentalist Christian called Arthur Robinson. Its petition was attached to what purported to be a scientific paper, printed in the font and format of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. In fact, the paper had not been peer-reviewed or published in any scientific journal.(11) Anyone could sign the petition, and anyone did: only a handful of the signatories are experts in climatology,(12) and quite a few of them appear to have believed that they were signing a genuine paper.(13) And yet, six years later, this petition is still being wheeled out to suggest that climatologists say global warming isn’t happening.
See http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2004/08/10/goodbye-kind-world-/ and http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2004/08/19/correspondence-with-david-bellamy/ for the follow-up correspondance between the two.
Matthew
Which led to an article in the Graun by George Monbiot and and some correspondance between the two
"Like every impending disaster (think of the rise of Hitler or the fall of Rome), this one has generated a voluble industry of denial. Few people are now foolish enough to claim that man-made climate change isn’t happening at all, but the few are still granted plenty of scope to make idiots of themselves in public. Last month they were joined by the former environmentalist David Bellamy.
Writing in the Daily Mail, Bellamy asserted that “the link between the burning of fossil fuels and global warming is a myth.”(9) Like almost all the climate change deniers, he based his claim on a petition produced in 1998 by the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine and “signed by over 18,000 scientists”. Had Bellamy studied the signatories, he would have discovered that the “scientists” include Ginger Spice and the cast of MASH.(10) The Oregon Institute is run by a fundamentalist Christian called Arthur Robinson. Its petition was attached to what purported to be a scientific paper, printed in the font and format of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. In fact, the paper had not been peer-reviewed or published in any scientific journal.(11) Anyone could sign the petition, and anyone did: only a handful of the signatories are experts in climatology,(12) and quite a few of them appear to have believed that they were signing a genuine paper.(13) And yet, six years later, this petition is still being wheeled out to suggest that climatologists say global warming isn’t happening.
See http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2004/08/10/goodbye-kind-world-/ and http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2004/08/19/correspondence-with-david-bellamy/ for the follow-up correspondance between the two.
Matthew
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by Stephen Bennett
quote:
Originally posted by Rasher:
I know of one geologist, a professor at the Imperial College, London who believes that global warming does not exist. Really.
Their name?
Regards
Stephen
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by Stephen Bennett
quote:
Originally posted by matthewr:
Talking of madness, here's a picture of Neo-con pin-up girl Ann Coulter:
_<shudder>_
Matthew
She also said she was 'Pro life and for killing terrorists'
I wonder what the republican right would do if asked to abort Osama Bin Laden? Maybe they'd spin around saying 'does not compute' and explode in a puff of logic?
Regards
Stephen
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by Stephen Bennett
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Ranson:
What majority?
the ones who aren't creationists or under the thumb of the oil industry.
quote:
And what does 'climate change' mean? I think we ought to be clear about definitions, if we're talking science rather than politics.
I assume you use 'climate change' as a euphemism for 'increasing carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere as a consequence of human activity will lead to significant rises in global temperatures leading to substantial environmental disruption'?
Paul
Indeed.
stephen
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by Paul Ranson
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by Martin Payne
Isn't it ironic that GWB refuses to do anything to avert rising CO2 levels, but his policies have led to a considerable rise in the cost of oil.
If this is sustained, I suspect it will help to make non-fossil alternatives more competitive.
cheers, Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne (at) Dial.Pipex.com. Put "Naim" in the title.
If this is sustained, I suspect it will help to make non-fossil alternatives more competitive.
cheers, Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne (at) Dial.Pipex.com. Put "Naim" in the title.
Posted on: 05 November 2004 by Wolf
well I hate to say that higher prices are probably going into lining corporate pockets not really the cost of crude. I actually hope we Americans do have to pay higher prices as it will make SUVs obsolete and alternatieve fuels and transportation more important. I bought my focus with that in mind.
but Bush hasn't a clue about what's really right. I'm sinking into a 4 year depression I fear.
Life is analogue, enjoy it while you can.
but Bush hasn't a clue about what's really right. I'm sinking into a 4 year depression I fear.
Life is analogue, enjoy it while you can.
Posted on: 05 November 2004 by sonofcolin
I recall reading a very interesting book by Kary Mullis called "Dancing naked in the mind field." He has some rather interesting views on global warming and HIV amongst others (very controversial many would say). He's the guy that invented PCR (for sequencing DNA) so has some scientific intelligence. Fascinating chap.
Kary Mullis
Oil prices are becoming a joke. It now costs me well over $25 to fill my 3.0L A4! However, I doubt this will have any significant impact on consumption in the states and even if it did, it would be because of cost rather than environmental impact. Everyone is happy now that supplies are 'in safe hands' and people are paying top dollar for it (no doubt to re-imburse the very kind people who have kept the supply safe).
Colin
Kary Mullis
Oil prices are becoming a joke. It now costs me well over $25 to fill my 3.0L A4! However, I doubt this will have any significant impact on consumption in the states and even if it did, it would be because of cost rather than environmental impact. Everyone is happy now that supplies are 'in safe hands' and people are paying top dollar for it (no doubt to re-imburse the very kind people who have kept the supply safe).
Colin
Posted on: 05 November 2004 by 7V
quote:
Originally posted by sonofcolin:
Oil prices are becoming a joke. It now costs me well over $25 to fill my 3.0L A4!
Gosh Colin.
That's over a third of what the rest of us pay.
Steve M
Posted on: 05 November 2004 by sonofcolin
Yes. $25 is still ridiculously cheap compared to the UK. That was my point!
Everytime I come back and hire a car, I feel like I'm being robbed. Still, there is always the train?
Everytime I come back and hire a car, I feel like I'm being robbed. Still, there is always the train?
Posted on: 05 November 2004 by Mitch
Bush Country ‘04
Mitch
Mitch
Posted on: 05 November 2004 by Bhoyo
For those who don't know:
That map shows how US counties voted (red is Republican).
What it doesn't say is that most of the major population areas (NY, LA, Miami, DC, Chicago, Detroit, Boston etc) are in the blue, Democratic counties.
Davie
That map shows how US counties voted (red is Republican).
What it doesn't say is that most of the major population areas (NY, LA, Miami, DC, Chicago, Detroit, Boston etc) are in the blue, Democratic counties.
Davie
Posted on: 05 November 2004 by Justin
quote:
Originally posted by Mitch:
Bush Country ‘04
http://photo.head-fi.org/data/500/2709BushCountry04Map.jpg
Mitch
Yes, this map gives the wrong impression. It shows "geographic density" of voter preference, but not a "population density". This map shows the geography properly distorted to reflect the populations that live there.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/carto/nov05c.html
As you can see, it shows a much more equal distribution of red and blue.
Judd
Posted on: 05 November 2004 by Phil Barry
The Grand Young Party (a name Barry Goldwater suggested it be called, until someone pointed out the initials - apologies to Romany) makes much of the red counties, but as Bhoyo says, much of red America is space.
This election was incredible...abortion and sex between men is immoral, but, as Robert Reich said, givmg tax cuts to the top 2% of income gatherers while reducing services to poor people IS moral. And it's moral to lie, to attack Iraq for no good reason, to send troops into battle without proper training and equipment, to ....
I do not understand the results. I do not understand my fellow Americans. I fear for myself, for ny country, and for my fellow human beings.
Right now, the agenda is set by crazies of many stripes. They gain and stay in power by manipulating fear. Orwell was off by 20 years. I do not know how the center will regain control. Will the US and Middle East fuck each other over only to find themselves under Chinese hegemony? Will India match China's wealth and power? Or will the powers that be in China nad India decide that Orwell's vision works for them?
Regards.
Phil
This election was incredible...abortion and sex between men is immoral, but, as Robert Reich said, givmg tax cuts to the top 2% of income gatherers while reducing services to poor people IS moral. And it's moral to lie, to attack Iraq for no good reason, to send troops into battle without proper training and equipment, to ....
I do not understand the results. I do not understand my fellow Americans. I fear for myself, for ny country, and for my fellow human beings.
Right now, the agenda is set by crazies of many stripes. They gain and stay in power by manipulating fear. Orwell was off by 20 years. I do not know how the center will regain control. Will the US and Middle East fuck each other over only to find themselves under Chinese hegemony? Will India match China's wealth and power? Or will the powers that be in China nad India decide that Orwell's vision works for them?
Regards.
Phil
Posted on: 05 November 2004 by cunningplan
A question guys
I know the population of the US is about 270 million, and approx 120 million people voted. How many eligible voters didn't vote?
Just interested
Regards
Clive
I know the population of the US is about 270 million, and approx 120 million people voted. How many eligible voters didn't vote?
Just interested
Regards
Clive
Posted on: 06 November 2004 by BigH47
quote:
I know the population of the US is about 270 million, and approx 120 million people voted. How many eligible voters didn't vote?
It was 80% turnout I think.
quote:
What would happen if you added the Kerry & Nader votes together?
A majority for K & J (popular vote) no idea what it would do to the electoral college though.
Regarding global warming or cooling for that manner and I am NOT saying we do not have an effect on the planet.
I watch lots of TV programmes on Dinosaurs and planet history. It is clear that the planet has had periods of global warming and also has had ice ages none of which have any thing to do with fossil fuels or CFCs.
So basically we might not have to anything to fuck up life here.
I suspect we will be only too happy to help though.
A phrase which really pisses me off is :-
"We are destroying the planet" no it will probably still be here when all life "as we know it" is dead and gone or screwing up the atmosphere of Alpha Centurii 3.
Live Long and Pollute?
Howard
Posted on: 06 November 2004 by 7V
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Alves:
What would happen if you added the Kerry & Nader votes together?
Not a lot.
George W. Bush (REP) 59,459,765 - 51% - 286 electoral votes
John F. Kerry (DEM) 55,949,407 - 48% - 252 electoral votes
Ralph Nader (IND) 400,706 - 0% - 0 electoral votes
99% of precincts reporting
Source: NBC
Steve M