Four more years: The madness begins

Posted by: Stephen Bennett on 04 November 2004

One of Bush’s 'global warming' advisors was speaking on the Today program this morning. He suggested that there was no evidence of global warming and that 'other countries' were using the issue as part of a world wide conspiracy to reduce the competitiveness of US businesses. When asked why so many scientists were convinced of climate change he replied, to an obviously astonished John Humphries, that US scientists were 'more independent' as they weren't funded by government - unlike Europe, for example.

I'm not concerned about pensions anymore.

Confused

Stephen
Posted on: 06 November 2004 by Justin
quote:
Originally posted by AlexG:


I am amazed that there are tiny 'islands' of blue in the middle of the red 'sea' of the mid west. By tiny I do of course mean relative to the surrounding area, not relative to the UK or anything silly like that.

ag


But that's just it. It's not a "tiny island of blue in the middle of a red sea". Those tiny islands are only small in geographic terms - they are huge in terms of population. Look at the map I posted above. It adjusts for population density. It is much more even.

Judd
Posted on: 06 November 2004 by ErikL
quote:
Originally posted by Phil Barry:
This election was incredible...abortion and sex between men is immoral, but, as Robert Reich said, givmg tax cuts to the top 2% of income gatherers while reducing services to poor people IS moral. And it's moral to lie, to attack Iraq for no good reason, to send troops into battle without proper training and equipment, to ....

That's precisely how Kerry lost it. He let Bush set the table and define "what is moral". I heard an interesting commentary on the radio suggesting that if Kerry took the approach that "providing healthcare to Americans is the moral thing to do", "protecting American jobs is the moral thing to do", "to lie to the people and send our kids to invade Iraq is immoral", "to give a tax cut to the rich while the rest of you are struggling is immoral", "to give no-bid contracts to the VP's former company is immoral", etc, etc, etc the results would have been much different. I don't know if that's true but I thought it was an interesting perspective. But I definitely believe that Bush defined the race.
Posted on: 06 November 2004 by JonR
Erik,

Regardless of what the result might have been, at least it would have been a refreshingly clear line for Kerry to take.

This is said admittedly with hindsight, but what a shame the Democrats missed such an opportunity.

jon
Posted on: 06 November 2004 by Bhoyo
I'm fairly sure Kerry DID say those things. His problem (again, easy to say with hindsight) was a failure to keep it simple. Elections seem to be won on slogans, soundbites and personalities, not on intelligent explication of issues.

As the Wobblies said all those years ago, Educate Agitate Organize.

Davie
Posted on: 06 November 2004 by Justin
quote:
Originally posted by Phil Barry:
The Grand Young Party (a name Barry Goldwater suggested it be called, until someone pointed out the initials - apologies to Romany) makes much of the red counties, but as Bhoyo says, much of red America is space.

This election was incredible...abortion and sex between men is immoral, but, as Robert Reich said, givmg tax cuts to the top 2% of income gatherers while reducing services to poor people IS moral. And it's moral to lie, to attack Iraq for no good reason, to send troops into battle without proper training and equipment, to ....

I do not understand the results. I do not understand my fellow Americans. I fear for myself, for ny country, and for my fellow human beings.

Right now, the agenda is set by crazies of many stripes. They gain and stay in power by manipulating fear. Orwell was off by 20 years. I do not know how the center will regain control. Will the US and Middle East fuck each other over only to find themselves under Chinese hegemony? Will India match China's wealth and power? Or will the powers that be in China nad India decide that Orwell's vision works for them?

Regards.

Phil


Glad you got to see the Robert Reich interview (less glad that you watch Scarborough Country Winker).

I hope I'm not alone in thinking that Reich is, perhaps, one of the smartest people we have. It's too bad he's not still in government - though I would give a small toe to take a class with him at Brandies.

Judd
Posted on: 07 November 2004 by 7V
quote:
Originally posted by Phil Barry:
This election was incredible...abortion and sex between men is immoral, but, as Robert Reich said, givmg tax cuts to the top 2% of income gatherers while reducing services to poor people IS moral

I wish that abortion wouldn't be grouped together with gay sex by the US electoral system.

What men do together in private affects no one but themselves and is thus no one else's business.

It's not enough to say "abortion should be legal" or "abortion should be illegal", "abortion is moral" or " abortion is immoral".

At some point during the term of a pregnancy, the foetus becomes a living human being. Before that point, there is a case for abortion and a debate is permissable. After that point, there can be no debate. If the foetus is a living human then abortion = murder.

Am I missing something here? Does anyone disagree?

Steve M