Academic qualifications

Posted by: Fisbey on 17 September 2004

No disrespect to anyone with masters degrees etc, but why are some people obsessed with getting university qualifications?, it's almost like a competition; my diplomas better than your diploma etc.

Confused
Posted on: 17 September 2004 by Steve Toy
Sometimes (with hindsight) you gain academic qualifications just for personal satisfation.

I got 8 O Levels at the age of 16,

Another at the age of 17 with that little "maturity" symbol that I think is now the equivalent of an AS level.

At 18 I scraped two Ds at A Level because I did no work, got pissed etc.

I got a place at a polytechnic that became a University while I was there and got a Desmond (Tutu) aka pissheads' degree.

A couple of tutors shook their heads at me at a meeting with them and said I was only going to get a 2.2.

I went on to successfully completeing a PGCE, taught French for one year before going back to what was originally only meant to fund me through the course.

Taxi driving.

I then became self employed in the above trade.

I guess that makes me an idiot with a brain. Roll Eyes

Every now and then I get told by some passenger in normal banter that I must either have another "proper" job - or that I should get one.

And this is before I bother to tell them I've got a degree/can read/write/spell ok in two languages.



Regards,

Steve.

[This message was edited by Steven Toy on Sat 18 September 2004 at 6:02.]
Posted on: 17 September 2004 by Laurie Saunders
quote:
criticising success and achievement.


Not really.....criticising ostentatious CLAIMS(usually overstating success) which often substitute for the "real" thing


An interesting anecdote:

Whilst taking a break from decorating a few years back, I popped into the local (expensive) furnishers to purchase some lace nets (uggh!....not my choice)

I was wearing scruffy (paint-stained) clothes. Whilst waiting for service, the (not so young) sales assistant drawled in an obviously supercilious tone(whilst pointedly avoiding eye contact) : "the budget range was on the upper floor"

I resisted the temptation for a sarcastic response. simply responding "well I`d better wait here then"

As stated above, it is a sad fact that some folk are duped/prejudiced by appearances...or CLAIMS (ie "qualifications" )rather than "track record"

Laurie S
Posted on: 18 September 2004 by Mick P
How sad is that reply.

We should be getting off our asses and getting all the qualifications possible rather than whinging about some one being flash etc.

This really is a bloody sad thread.

Regards

Mick
Posted on: 18 September 2004 by Berlin Fritz
Especially when one spells arses like the Yanks !
Posted on: 18 September 2004 by Mick P
You would do well to act like the yanks, get off your ass and get a job.

You need a good kick up the ass.

I say this not in aggression but in a spirit of helpfullness and counsel.

Regards

Mick
Posted on: 18 September 2004 by Berlin Fritz
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
You would do well to act like the yanks, get off your ass and get a job.

You need a good kick up the ass.

I say this not in aggression but in a spirit of helpfullness and counsel.

Is that a qualified opinion Michael or the standard run of the mill steriotypical one your so brilliant at ?

Graham George Of Millionquidbusiness'sdon'tletgoeasily Big Grin

Regards

Mick
Posted on: 18 September 2004 by Mick P
Qualifications and IQ tests are not always a sound indicator of intelligence. TA

Tom I think IQ tests are a pretty good indicator of intelligence.

Regards

Mick....wears expensive pin striped suits, white shirts, cufflinks, silk ties, black socks and brogues.

PS

Fritz

Get off your ass and get a job. Do something useful.
Posted on: 18 September 2004 by Alex S.
quote:
Tom I think IQ tests are a pretty good indicator of intelligence.


Mick, I bet you were well up in the mid 60s in your heyday. In your dotage it must be a bit worrying to observe all those grey cells jumping ship.

Yours in sympathy,

Alex
Posted on: 18 September 2004 by Bas V
quote:
Mick....wears expensive pin striped suits, white shirts, cufflinks, silk ties, black socks and brogues.


No expensive jewellry Mick Wink

BTW Brogues are hopelessly old fashioned, so are plain white shirts. But I know it's a long way from Italy to England Razz
Posted on: 18 September 2004 by Rasher
quote:
Originally posted by Martin D:
"Being a construction industry professional myself"
That sort of statement is even more ammusing than banging on about Dr this or Phd that! What job do you do Rasher?

I told you - I got O-level woodwork Big Grin
Posted on: 18 September 2004 by Rasher
I did a job for another Structural Engineer because he had no idea where to start with it. He had spent all his time teaching at the Uni and didn't have a clue how to apply his knowledge. It didn't mean he was no good as a Structural Engineer, it was just a different application. We all do thing differently and either collect qualifications or we don't & it doesn't make anyone better or worse - it just defines the market where they are able to apply themselves.
I think we are all pretty clever to tell you the truth.
Posted on: 18 September 2004 by Laurie Saunders
quote:
I think IQ tests are a pretty good indicator of intelligence


I guess if you define intelligence as the ability to pass IQ tests, then you are right



How do YOU define intelligence?

(I have a few ideas, but I`m keeping them under my hat for now)

Laurie S
Posted on: 18 September 2004 by Deane F
I'm at university to study a subject that interests me to get a job I LIKE in a profession that won't let me practice without a degree so that I can earn (?) lots of money so that I can (a) Make my Naim dealer very happy, and (b) earn so much money that I can justify spending 20K on amplifier.

That's my two cents worth.

Deane
Posted on: 18 September 2004 by Deane F
Justify spending 20k on an amplifier TO MY WIFE - I should add.

I. personally, have no problem with the price.

Deane
Posted on: 19 September 2004 by Mick P
Roy

Why you take everything so personal is beyond me.

To sum up a few of your points ( I have neither the time nor the inclination to go into detail) I respond as follows.

a) Anyone who claims that they can tell which way round a cable is connected in a blind test is either capable of extremely sensitive hearing denied to most of the human species or quite frankly are as mad as a fish. If you think you can hear the difference, then fine. I cannot.

b) You took a dislike to me after I listened to your test disk and my system passed every test. I heard tings and dings and the sound came out from the correct direction on every track. This was even when my LH Speaker was wired out of phase, so what good was the test disk. I asked the question on the forum and did not receive any decent answer. A test disk that allows a system to pass 100% when one speaker is out of phase is frankly not testing the system.

If you want to come and listen to my system with the test disk running whilst the speaker is out of phase, you are more than welcome.

c) You have sent out goodness knows how many emails about wiring etc and I do not know of any Hifi manufacturer who has endorsed it. That speaks volumes. However, if you wish to modify your electrics, then thats fine by me. But I will leave mine as it is.

Regards

Mick
Posted on: 19 September 2004 by Deane F
I should like to gently opine that IQ tests are the creation of a group of "soft" scientists who like to think that scientific method can be applied to everything, everywhere.

Psychology, as somebody somewhere once said, is at the stage now that surgery was when it was practiced by barbers.

Anyway
Cheers
Deane
Posted on: 19 September 2004 by Mick P
Tom

Yes you are all raving bonkers. Glad you have admitted it.

As regards to measuring intelligence, the IQ does precisely that. It defines your brains ability to think or solve problems or whatever.

I think we are confusing this with ability. Having a high IQ goes not mean that you could do a job well for instance.

However, as a rough rule of thumb, most people in senior positions get there either by cunning or intellect combined with tenacity.

This is somewhat of an open ended topic and we could go in circles all day on this one.

What I will say is that what you did or learnt, say 10 years ago, seems to be of less importance today. Therefore a 40 year man is more likely to land a job due to recent experience/achievements rather than how he was educated during his early twenties.

Fortunately for you and I, this is is largely academic as I intend to retire full time, like your goodself, in November. Working is for mugs.

We are flying out to Spain in October and looking to buying a house out there.

It is a nice feeling.

Regards

Mick
Posted on: 19 September 2004 by matthewr
I can't help feeling that it some of you had rather more in the way of an education you might not talk the sort of utter rot that fills this thread. I have a horrible feeling the phrase "a degree from the University of Life" is about to crop up.

For sure, there are people with degrees who are useless and people without degrees who are extremely talented and successful but to suggest that degrees (and the education that goes with it) are not inherently good things and a generally reliable inidcator of ability and education is just stupid.

Matthew

PS Roy, FWIW, as someone who knows little of the history of your dispute with Mick, I must say that your post comes across as bitter, ill-tempered and more than a little bonkers.
Posted on: 19 September 2004 by long-time-dead
quote:
Originally posted by Martin D:

Martin
Southwest Medical Diagnostic Equipment Pathological and Vetinary Technical Computational Endocrine and Tumour Marker Investigational Operative and Consultant.


So you work in a Path. Lab ?
Posted on: 19 September 2004 by long-time-dead
Tom

Everything about fixing parrots in the real world.

[This message was edited by long-time-dead on Sun 19 September 2004 at 11:17.]
Posted on: 19 September 2004 by Jay
I suspect that if qualifications and intelligence were correlated there would be a strong relationship. I also suspect that they'd be a strong relationship with money and loving/supportive parenting.

Having qualifications doesn't make you a "better" person. But they can help some people achieve what they want out of life.

Jay
Posted on: 19 September 2004 by Laurie Saunders
quote:
As regards to measuring intelligence, the IQ does precisely that. It defines your brains ability to think or solve problems or whatever.


Surely an IQ score simply tells you how good you are at doing IQ tests?...and very little more

quote:
Working is for mugs.


Does this only become true on the day you retire Mick?

Presumably when you were working for 30+ (?)years it was NOT for mugs

And if there were no "mugs" around, who would pay for pensions that you (and others) enjoy? Smile

(I take your general point that I would certainly prefer a life of leisure...)

Matthew:

quote:
For sure, there are people with degrees who are useless and people without degrees who are extremely talented and successful but to suggest that degrees (and the education that goes with it) are not inherently good things and a generally reliable inidcator of ability and education is just stupid



All things being equal, more education is a Good Thing, I accept

However, my perception of much of what goes on in HE nowadays produces many graduates with qualifications that indicate very little in the way of knowledge OR ability, ie many of the "qualifications" are almost worthless... As such they have a devalueing effect on those remaining qualifications that ARE meaningful.


As such I take strong issue with your statement that a (modern) degree is a reliable indicator of ability


Just look at the A-Level fiasco....most "serious" uninersities now almost disregard A-Level grades as an indicator of anything worthwhile

I understand , for example, in one University, 60% of graduates get a 2.1.....ie it is possible to score below average and get this grade of degree.

In addition, most Universities are frightened to fail(the dreaded f word) anyone these days

I see how the system works from the inside..
There is much good practice,and genuine high achievement but I am afraid that I would describe much of what passes for education/qualification and achievement these days as little short of utter fraud and corruption

Laurie S
Posted on: 19 September 2004 by Jay
quote:
Originally posted by PR:
God forbid if we all took a ‘working is for mugs’ attitude.


It was a throw-away comment. I think you're taking it out of context. God forbid we actually demonstrate some understanding on a hifi forum!
Posted on: 19 September 2004 by velofellow
Slightly off topic, but I get real pleasure from seeing yet another graduate from my alma mater represent England at cricket or rugby.Any Nobel Prizes or great inventors from Durham Uni-I couldn't give a monkey's.Must go and re- read Porterhouse Blue;now that was college.Cheers Tony
Posted on: 19 September 2004 by Mick P
Jay

My comment on working is for mugs, was a flippant throwaway.

I left school without a single qualification in 1964 and worked continuously without any interuption until 2004 with only 4 employers. I have only ever taken a total of 58 days sick leave during all that time.

I enjoyed the work, I really did, and during my thirties I was what is now referred to as a workalcoholic, working myself stupid. It was only when a close friend, of similar age, died from a stress induced heart attack that I eased up for the sake of my children.

It was at that stage when I discovered music in my life, due to having some time to actually listen to it and I started the Naim trial when a neighbour sold me his 32.5 / 140 combo.

I volunteered for early retirement in April of this year after being made a very generous offer that has set me up for life.

Strangely enough, I found it difficult to retire. I felt guilty about sitting on my ass (that's how I spell it) doing nothing .

I became self employed working for a couple of large companies in their Purchasing departments .

The work poured in, which although lucrative, meant that for two weeks, I worked a 70 hour week. I then decided, enough was enough and it is now time to back pedal rather than going at it hell for leather uphill.

The self employed period has acted as a bridge from employment to retirement and I am now ready for it. It does take some getting used to.

It is a nice feeling knowing that I can put my feet up after 40 years of working. That was the basis of my remark.

Regards

Mick

[This message was edited by Mick Parry on Sun 19 September 2004 at 15:30.]