Academic qualifications

She's hetrosexual

My two cents:

I have a Ph.D. in biochemistry, for which I suffered excruciating anguish. I, in my (doubtless arrogant) way, consider it an achievement. Does it define me? No. It was just something I did. I've done other things I'm more proud of. I hope to do even more things still.

{insert old chestnut here about judging books by covers}

jay

PS- Any thread that convinces MP to weigh in as the resident genius is worth every pixel. Mensa must be wiping away tears of pride. Represent!

Jay

I presume the American taxpayer funded your PhD.

What have they got back in return.

Regards

Mick

Ahh, Mick. Your presumptions are a goodly portion of what have elevated you to the lofty position you now hold in audio board public opinion.

My degree cost roughly $130k, all but $10k of which I earned through gainful employment such as you now find yourself so piously bereft of. The remaining $10k I borrowed from a private lending institution, and paid back (with interest). No American taxpayers were harmed during the process, other than myself.

What have I contributed? Some small bits of understanding about the way a particular class of enzymes (known as kinases) do their biochemical thing. My papers are in the public domain, should your subscription to Expensive Pens and Shotguns Monthly expire and you find yourself short of fireside reading material. Should provide a nice bit of entertainment during your Sunday afternoon, out-of-phase listening sessions.

Thanks for playing our game, though. We do have some lovely parting gifts for you.

Jay

Jay

It is good to hear that the American taxpayer did not have to pay for your education.

Regretably that is not always the case over here.

I hold the viewpoint that if society funds the education of an individual, the individual should pay society back in one form or another.

Regards

Mick

[QUOTE] What she is particularly good at is understanding what is being asked of the course and the requirements of the exam.

The ability to listen; take direction; admit when one is wrong; work hard even when the pub is open; not take too many days off for sickness; integrate another's opinion into one's own; are all things that assist success in the workplace. These things are indicators of character. They all help with attempts to gain qualifications, as well.

I am studying toward a degree in Law. While I am sure that I'll never need to refer to a number of old authorities ever again, all the study I have done and will do helps me to gain a deep understanding of the principles. This deep understanding will help me when I need it the most - that is, for a situation that will probably arise at some point in my career for which I am unable to prepare and for which I'll need to do the right thing - and it will matter to somebody else who needs my expertise AND my qualification and they will suffer harm if I fail. They say that airline pilots are paid so much because on average each pilot experiences 40 seconds of crisis in the course of their career in which they must make the only correct decision available and it matters to a lot of people that they get it right.

Law is one of the few subjects taught the old way with rote learning. The subject is hard because it requires a conceptual shift and a unique form of analysis.

I'm studying Law because I find it utterly absorbing. It delights me. At 36 years of age I've found my calling. I hate to think what this says about me as a person, though. I keep thinking my wife will find Law interesting if I just explain a little more....

Law also helps me to ramble on and sound like a wanker.

Deane

Oh, and (deep breath) Mick your viewpoint is an enthymeme. That is to say that one of your basic propositions remains unstated. I can see the hidden proposition. Can you?

The aquisition of an education IS a payback to society.

Deane

Ok

So we pay to put someone through university and he ends up for whatever reason as a dustbin man.

No disrespect to them, but where is the investment there.

Regards

Mick

The problem is the narrowness of the model you are using.

Investment??? Return????

How has the business model overtaken real thought so quickly and replaced it with calculation?

Is the dustman a decent man? Is he compassionate? Does he inform his opinions?

Deane

Deane

The taxpayer has only so little cash and there is so much to spend it on.

If we spend on education, we need the return to spend on other worthwhile causes.

Think of it as the compassionate side of beancounting.

Regards

Mick

quote:

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So we pay to put someone through university and he ends up for whatever reason as a dustbin man.

No disrespect to them, but where is the investment there.

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Mick, I don't know where to begin. Maybe, just maybe, the opportunity to spend a few years expanding an individual's horizons is a gift any civilised society should be happy to bestow. What the individual choses to do with it... is his/her own responsibility. They will have to bear their share in turn.

Meanwhile, Jayd wrote:

quote:

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I have a Ph.D....Does it define me? No. It was just something I did. I've done other things I'm more proud of. I hope to do even more things still.

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This is exactly how I feel about my own paper-gathering exercises, and I had a ball on the way.

Maybe the two are linked...

I admire your enthusiasm Deane. I too enjoy my work so much I would do it as a hobby. I have never dipped into my course notes to get around a problem because I either discuss it with a colleague, or, having my own business, don't have the time to deal with areas of my profession (structural engineering - no I'm not a carpenter) that I am not so familiar with, so bat it onto someone who does. We all tend eventually to specialise - never by choice I might add - so if it would take me time to look into something I haven't done for a while, it isn't cost effective for me. So by return I get lumbered with the stuff that puzzles others. Funnily enough, when I am forced to do something unfamiliar, a bunch of them come along immediately after and I end up being the new expert.
But you are right - without learning the principles you are flying blind and that is incompetent. Errors can be life threatening and career ending.

Too bloody right the taxpayer (sometimes partially) funds education IMO and long may it last. Let's not forget that those who chose to use their degrees etc. in paid employment tend to earn more and therefore pay more back into the system.

Investment vs. return? In education? Way too Thatcher man - we'ved moved on (a bit) thank god!

Cheers

Harry

Harry

You said..."Let's not forget that those who chose to use their degrees etc. in paid employment tend to earn more and therefore pay more back into the system.

That is fine, we are getting our money back. I am concerned about those who take advanced education and then just loll around. The taxpayer is entitled to a return.

Regards

Mick

I am concerned about those who take advanced education and then just loll around.

Hooooooraaaaaaay!

LONG LIVE FREEDOM AND THE FREE SOCIETY.

I just wish Naim was less expensive than it is.

Deane

Long haired, drug taking parasite.

Mick – absolutely agree!!!!
Having just had my payslip and looked at the deductions section
Martin
BTW students are only free coz i'm paying

Mick I hope you keep your hair at a respectable length when in Spain drinking your drugs.

Nearly all of my previous employers are parasites. They lived off the hard work of their employees. Goods and services are sold at the highest price that the market can possibly bear - not at their value. Labour is bought at the lowest price the market can possibly bear.

Deane

PR

Speaketh thou against Naim, acolyte?

Deane

quote:

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Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Long haired, drug taking parasite.

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Michael, You really shouldn't bring Civil Servant's into the equation, especially on the Equinox, and don't forget yer Tiger Gun Son, innit.

Graham George Of Policingeuropeforvagabonds

HTK,

I agree. It is not as simple as that and it is a can of worms, however, I do stand by my comments re: spelling.

I have many friends who struggle in this area and many work colleagues. What I have noticed is that it weakens their understanding of sentence structure and, often, the very point that is being made. It's a glib argument to say it doesn't matter. It matters very much. Often one finds oneself in discussions that become heated over a misunderstanding. Now, that can happen to anyone but, just query their English marks and you get a very interesting correlation.

Mike

The equinox isn't until Thursday.



Regards,

Steve.

quote:

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That is fine, we are getting our money back. I am concerned about those who take advanced education and then just loll around. The taxpayer is entitled to a return.

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On balance free higher education pays for itself as most graduates go on to earn more and pay more tax during their lifetime. The additional tax they pay not only more than covers the cost of their education but also that of those who aren't fortunate enough to obtain more lucrative employment after they graduate.

Making students pay twice for their higher education is simply exercising politics of envy.

It would be better to limit the numbers of places on courses and abolish courses of low academic or vocational value (Surfing Studies anyone?) so that only the most academically able (say, the top ten percent, and not the one third that B.Liar is after) gain places on University courses.

Then a University degree would be worth something and all graduates would be guaranteed a better-paid job at the end.

quote:

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I say that the benefits and freedoms we enjoy through democracy and capitalism should provide us with the freedom to seek education for the sake of education.

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I agree provided the course of study is of academic value.

Regards,

Steve.

[This message was edited by Steven Toy on Tue 21 September 2004 at 14:35.]

quote:

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That is fine, we are getting our money back. I am concerned about those who take advanced education and then just loll around. The taxpayer is entitled to a return

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I tend to agree in principle though implementing these ideas in practice is so complex as to make it almost impossible to weigh up the "balance sheet"

Taking this argument to its logical conclusion, why stop at Higher Education. ..what about secondary education etc etc. Using the same logic , should the Health Service dispense "free" care to those whose lifestyles do not conform to some impossibly idealistic model of "perfection"


As is often the case (and one hears many rants about sponging Asylum Seekers, for example) the exceptions often grab the headlines and fuel the unthinking-Daily -Mail -type bigots of this country

AFAICT, the majority of folk have similar, mainstream aspirations:viz:

To qualify so as to gain useful and rewarding employment, build a home and raise a family, and become valued citizens. Not everyone can be a "high flyer" or earn fantastic salaries, but I have absolutely no doubt, that overall, the country, and everyone in it, benefits from an educated, healthy poulation, who can think critically and perceptively about a range of issues, many of which are not directly related to earning a financial reward, and hence make informed and wise choices every day of their lives


I am convinced from what I have seen, that those folk who find themselves at the "bottom of the heap" are there primarily due to ignorance (ie lack of education) and poor decision making on a wide variety of issues, that we all encounter, and deal with successfully, every day of our lives

Education is far too important an issue to discuss it in the context of mere jobs and income

Laurie S

I'm considering doing a Doctorate on internet website-forum threads specialising in analasys & intra-discussion upon academic qualifications and their true effect on today's macro-social communities taking considered research from thier members to base the main thrust of its impact into general consideration.

Innit: