Extremely unbalanced system!

How did it sound??? Wonderful. Even through that melange of electronics the strenths of the 52 over his 42/Snaps were manifest and convincing. The wincing top end of the Advents became textured, inflected and detailed.

It is amazing what a tremendous bottle-neck the pre-amp can be, even with very modest source components and speakers. And since a pre-amp is (maybe) 75% power supply, 25% everything else, it comes as no great suprise that the 32.5/supercap whipped the snot out of the Snaps2.

Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo

http://homepages.go.com/~rontoolsie/index1.html

There's something magical about a Super-Cap. Sure it does all of those hi-fi things about which we love to rant and rave. There's an extra quality, though, that doesn't come with the Hi-Cap and other lesser supplies. Even running my 82/2*Hi, I almost never achieved this ethereal aspect.

It's as if you're at a live concert where you realize that the performer is doing something very special. They've hit their groove, and you were lucky enough to witness it. The Super-Cap seems to recreate this effect every single time. The interesting thing is that it was there to some extent even with the 32.5.

Usually Naim power supplies like to warm up for 24 hours or more. I'm looking forward to see how it sounds tomorrow night. Catch you later!

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

I'm just sad than my office system is back to 32.5/SNAPS. It's sounds so small and sad. Catch you later!

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

enjoy...

ken

For me the supercap on a 102/180 and then the 52 for the 102 and then the CDS 2 for CDX/XPS were the biggest upgrades. I rememeber listening to my system through a pair of modest Numen speakers and being simply astonished - frozen solid and almost weeping as I stood there - at what the supercap did to some Portishead and some Pink Floyd. At one point I thought a sound was coming from the other room, but no, it was the supercap giving my system a sense of "surround sound" that reached out and filled the room with its magic. The 52 was the same, but it added much more clarity, life, and color to the music, making the 102 seem clinical, dry, and muted in comparisson. The CDS 2 from CDX/XPS was like a combo of the two upgrades, the supercap adding warmth, texture, weight, balance, and groove, the 52 adding clarity, openness, color, and a special sense of musical purity.

Davez

Replacing the two Hi-Caps with a Super-Cap did improve these "hi fi" things a bit more, but the most noticeable change was the "magic". In a way the mundane sonic improvements seemed almost imperceptable, while I constantly sensed that something "special" was happening.

I hate to say this, because I know the flat earth police will interpret my comment as advocating soundstage. Be that as it may, the Super-Cap makes it sound more "3-D". I'm not talking about sensing intruments positioned in space, however. Instead, it's like looking at an excellent photograph, then suddenly realizing that it's actually a sculpture. "Palpable" is a very good word to describe this effect.

If you heard this effect at home, you would be hard pressed to return the Super-Cap later. You've been forewarned. Catch you later!

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

BTW, my description of the differences between the 82/2*Hi and the 82/Super are quite similar to those for a CDX/XPS versus a CDS2. The CDS2 certainly improves on various Hi-Fi characteristics, but it also jels the presentation into a cohesive, magical performance. Catch you later!

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

You must be in the 72-lovers camp. To me, a 32.5 sounds somewhat close to a 72, while a 72 is a LONG way from a 102. I'm quite disgusted with the local Naim dealer, since they're running a CDS2/72/Hi/250/Credo system. They should have at least a 102 or 82 for proper dems of the CDS2. As it is, it really minimizes many of the differences between the CDX, CDX/XPS and CDS2. I think they would sell more XPSs and CDS2s if they got a better pre-amp in there. Catch you later!

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Apparently you can drive a set of headphones from the second output on the *-Cap. Of course, you would have to turn-off the power amp, which means that it will have to warm-up again when you're done listening to your cans. You would also need a custom cable to go from the 4-pin output on the *-Cap to a headphone jack. I intend to try this to see how it compares to the Headline. If it's better, then I might sell the Headline and extra SNAPS. Catch you later!

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

This might come across a bit snobbish, but. . .

If you can't hear how much better the CDS2 is relative to a CDX/XPS, or a CDX/XPS is relative to a CDX, through a Nait (let alone a 72/Hi/250) than you shouldn't own any of them. We've run dems of the CDX, CDX/XPS, and CDS2 through a Nait 3 and the differences are instantly obvious.

Cheers,

Bob @ Qwest

Ride the Light !

Bottom line is that the 250 upgrade and then the Supercap upgrade tighten the base, brightened the sound and made everything more powerful and detailed. The improvement of the sound by the addition of the Supercap to the 42.5(over 10 years old)was obvious. Everything became more apparent, vivid and detailed. At times I think it is hard to improve upon good sound until you ugrade to the next level. I am looking forward to an 82 or 52 when the opportunity is there.

For example, if the amplifier and/or speakers don't resolve high frequency details very well, then a source that produces better high frequency details won't be able to shine. That doesn't mean that other benefits won't be obvious. It's merely that some will be dimmed. Catch you later!

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

quote:

---

For example, if the amplifier and/or speakers don't resolve high frequency details very well, then a source that produces better high frequency details won't be able to shine. That doesn't mean that other benefits won't be obvious.

---

J. Gordon Holt wrote several years ago that there are two kinds of hearing. One resolves frequencies. This hearing is what you're referring to when you talk about resolving high frequencies. Yes, if one can't hear beyond 12KHz, one can't hear differences in equipment above 12 KHz. Personally, 12 KHz used to be my limit, but I certainly am sensitive to HF grunge.

The other type - I think he referred to it as 'volleying' - refers to dynamics and/or the start/stop of sounds.

Apparently one can lose sensitivity without losing sensitivity to volleying.

I'm not sure of JGH accurately described these two aspects of hearing, and I'm not sure I have remembered or related it acurately. And I'm not sure it's relevant here.

But I'm not at all surprised that differences between CD5, CDX, CDX/XPS, and CDS2 can be clearly heard through a Yamaha receiver.

If we have any hearing specialists in the forum, I'd be interested in redaing your comments.

Phil

This is why you're not a source firster---I'd rather have a CDS2/72/Hi/250 than a CDX/XPS/52/500 precisely because I can hear how much better the CDS2 is at extracting the MUSIC from the disc. So it sounds like your dealer actually has a clue--he has put his money into the SOURCE !

Cheers,

Bob @ Qwest

Ride the Light !

o

For example, I was running with 3.5/Flat/102/NAPSC/140 through Royd A7Xs for a while. At that time I did a home demo of a CDX. This was obviously a big improvement, and convinced me that I had to upgrade to a CDX at some point. However, it still sounded a little small and pinched.

This pinched quality lessened when I got a Hi-Cap and took the system to 3.5/Hi/102/NAPSC/Flat/140. It turns out that the pre-amps power supply was having a larger effect than the 3.5's, however, since switching them gave a bigger improvement. Yet this was backwards from a "Source First" perspective.

Then I replaced the 3.5/Flat with a CDX, and this was wonderful. However, my system didn't sound any "bigger", although it was much more lyrical, detailed, etc. Then I upgraded the 102/NAPSC/Hi to 82/2*Hi and was stunned. Finally I was getting the big, slamming sound of authority that I expected from a top-tier audio system.

When I upgraded the 140 to a 250 (sorry Benjamin), it added a greater sense of ease and control, with deeper bass, etc. It wasn't nearly as great as adding a Hi-Cap to a bare pre-amp, though, or changing a 3.5/Flat to a CDX.

During this time I've had a "budget" Naim system at work, which as enabled me to test some of my theories. It has a second-rate source (Cambridge CD6), which is roughly equivalent to a Rega Planet and certainly nowhere near a bare 3.5. However, when I recently ran CambridgeCD6/32.5/Super/110/Merlins, I was amazed. While it wasn't as good as a CDX/102/NAPSC/Hi/140, it was mighty close.

BTW, the speakers can be a bottleneck for a system too. However, most "good" speakers are able to show the real differences between systems. The biggest difference is in bass extension, ability to go "loud" and fill a room, etc. If you're listening at lower volumes, speakers become less of an issue.

Considering all of my experience, I would say that Source upgrades and Pre-amp upgrades are both important, with the Source being a little more important. I would never suggest that a person buy a CDS2/Nait3. You would be much better to put your money into CDX/XPS/102/Hi/140 or something similar. Catch you later!

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

The power amp needs to be turned off because you're listening to headphones. If you don't turn off the amp, then you'll have sound coming out of the speakers at the same time. Catch you later!

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

2:
Also, for the hell of it, I got myself a spare cable for the HD600s, cut off the 3.5mm jack and replaced it with the appropriate DIN. The system sounded horrible with the 600s plugged into the Super, as should be expected, so what I did was to plug in and out as needed, and turn off the poweramps. Those were the days when I used an 82.

Vik
PS:-
With Michael Green's Roomtunes I get excellent detail at very low volumes now from the SBLs, so the 600s are nowadays used for video or discman, and I don't plug them into the Super - although in writing this, I feel I'm tempting myself again

As far as turning off the 250, I've found that it doesn't take more than a few minutes to warm-up after being turned on again. CD players and pre-amp power supplies take much longer, so I'm thinking it may have something to do with the extra current being drawn through the power amp.

Vik, I'm not sure that I understand what you're saying. Did the system sound bad when the headphones and amp were being driven at the same time? Did it sound bad with both the phones and the speakers? Was the speaker performance acceptable if you unplugged the headphones, but left the extra cable connected to the Super-Cap? Did the headphones sound OK if you left the 250 connected to the Super-Cap, but turned off the 250? I'll evetually determine this for myself, but for now you've got me curious.

Catch you later!

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

When you talk about the improvements you got from swapping out downstream components you are describing sonic, not musical improvements. A better sourcethrough competent amplification and speakers (Say-CDS2/Nait5/Vandersteen 1C) will play music better than a CDX/82/Super/SBL. In terms of musical communication it won't even be close.

Here is a concrete suggestion: forget about buying stuff because it is a "deal." Instead, budget for and purchase the next logical step: for you, an XPS. A CDX/XPS/82/2 Hicaps is better than a CDX/82/Super. Try it--you'll see.

Cheers,

Bob @ Qwest

Ride the Light

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

"If all I wanted was the music, then I would probably have a CDS2 and my old Yamaha integrated amp, but I'm not that singular in my desires."

Fair enough, although you could have a CDS2, 32.5/Hicap/250 for probably roughly the same money you have invested in your system right now. I'd bet your house that the CDS2 system would play music better than your current system AND do all the things you want (and -30 FEPS for even saying it !).

Cheers,

Bob @ Qwest

Ride the Light !m

Was the speaker performance acceptable if you unplugged the headphones, but left the extra cable connected to the Super-Cap?
>>>>>I did not try this, but it should be better. I did not try it because I did not want to loosen the connection on the 600s at the points of interface - something the Senns are prone to.

Did the headphones sound OK if you left the 250 connected to the Super-Cap, but turned off the 250?
>>>>>I understand what you're asking but I always turned the 250 off because the 600s are an open design and the sounds seeping in from the SBLs would be very audible. So the 250 had to be turned off. (I've not tried any of this since I got the 135s, come to think of it.)

John:-
How did the headphones sound with the amps powered down?
>>>>>well, the 600s are still not Staxs'. I mean this not so much in overall performance, but specifically in the treble range. The 600s can be fatiguing with less than liquid recordings. And if you're a typical Naim user you wouldnt care exclusively for CDs that make Harry Pearson's hitlist, so think in terms of pretty good but not perfect.

Did you experience a big hit by cycling the amps on and off regularly?
>>>>>nope. Nice thing about Naim poweramps is that they recover quickly.

Also, in my environs, the power is significantly better at night.
>>>>>what would you expect in Singapore? directly the opposite.

my system now with a 32.5 easily pastes other non-naim systems I have heard costing many, many times what my system cost.
>>>>>I can agree, especially since you've done a board upgrade. But if you'd like a miniature 52 try the 102. I hope you've Mana'ed the CDS1 and CDPS. And I think your speakers and poweramp make a great match

I had a 82 Supercap for quite a while--with a CD2 and LP12 (later Roksan Xerxes X) as source. No doubt it was better than the 72/Hicap I have now. However, I now have 2 sources that are very close to being maxed out, and should have the CD source maxed later this year with a CDS2. As a result, I get more music and thrills out of the hifi than I ever have.

With your system I can kind of understand going the 52 route, since you have phono also. If you didn't, you'd be much better off with CDS2/82/Super than CDX/XPS/52. I've tried both--it's really no contest.

Cheers,

Bob @ Qwest

Ride the Light !Ï

so may I assume during the Lunar New Year season the moon'll turn blue?

Congrats!