I really hate this country ....

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Originally posted by rodwsmith:
Iraq is simply not a country. It is an assemblage of three/four very different groups of people, none of which agrees with the others. In fact to generalise rather about history in many ways - it was Britain's creation. We have seen what Saddam Hussein did to the Kurds, and it will happen again. Saddam, it seems, discovered the only way by which Iraq could be held together (not that I'm defending it of course). Democracy, quite apart from not being the perfect system people appear to believe it, is in many fundamental ways completely contrary to the teachings of the Koran....I regret that I strongly feel I might be in a position this time next year to say "I told you so". But I bloody hope I'm wrong, really I do.

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Echoes of Yugoslavia here...

Mike

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Originally posted by Laurie Saunders:

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Low pay for teachers is a bit of a fallacy.

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Well, in fact the average tutor working "full-time" in my institution (in the upper quartile nationally) gets a gross of c 20k

A top tutor (not head of section) who has significant management responsibilities, and usually mor than 15 years experience earns c £27k/a

These are facts, gentlemen

Laurie S

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Also facts:

Teachers in Scotland have a target contact time of 22.5 per week out of 35 hours at school (the target is being phased in but it's 23.5 this year). My wife still does a fair amount of marking & course prep at home though.

The working year for teachers is 195 days.

In 2003 a teacher starting out would be on £18K rising to a top unpromoted salary of about £29K after 7 years (I think those figures have gone up by about £1K for 2004).

My wife gets paid a bit more as her current establishment pays a premium over the national grade so I think in 2004 her salary is over £31K.

A couple of years back an agreement (McCrone?) was reached between the Scottish Exec and the teachers which has substantially increased salaries and improved conditions - I don't know if a similar agreement has been reached elsewhere in the UK though.

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Originally posted by MichaelC:
Sorry but the money is obviously being applied on a selective basis AND it is for reasons like this that I despair. Tony F Liar and his cronies - the sooner they are gone the better.

Mike

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Do you guys really think things like this will be better under the Tories? At least there is money being applied somewhere...



Stephen

[This message was edited by Stephen Bennett on Thu 10 June 2004 at 16:32.]

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The working year for teachers is 195 days.

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..

which equates to 39 working weeks leaving 13 weeks "holiday" of which likely more than half is used up on working for "goodwill"

maybe in the secondary sector....

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Teachers in Scotland have a target contact time of 22.5 per week out of 35 hours at school (the target is being phased in but it's 23.5 this year).

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well maybe.....the REALITY in my experience is typically 26 hours contact(or more) per week, thanks to the device known as "averaging"(which effectively equates to being in front of students continuously, every day all day between 9.ooam and 4pm; that of course being just the tip of a very large (paper) iceberg

In any case, as you well know, the raw number of hours is a poor indicator..what matters is the number and diversity of courses squeezed into those hours (productivity)...this being inexorably increased (this year by 7% to pay for this year`s 2% pay "rise")

All I can say (again)is

(1) Why is it that the only comments that seem to imply that teaching is somehow a cushy number, come from those not emplyed therein?

(2) If, as is suggested, it is the money-for-old-rope job implied, does there exist a crisis (no overstatement here) in staff recruitment and retention

These facts surely speak for themselves, and IMO carry far mor weight than opinions

The old romantic, rose tinted "1950`s" view is long gone.....nowadays we live in the blame culture where "customers" can never be wrong, or are ever allowed to fail (sorry about using the forbidden "F" word), and you live with the cloud of legal action constantly hanging over you

It would also prove useful to look at the statistics on job related ill-health...they paint a pretty stark picture

PS

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Low pay for teachers is a bit of a fallacy. A pal of mine aged 35 is a secondary school Head of Music. He gets heaps of time off, is never at work later than about 5pm and gets plenty of lessons free in the day.

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If you are the one and same Mr Gorse who writes Hi-Fi reviews, then these sort of loose comments,will, as far as I am concerned, cast new light your opinions on matters HiFi

(I am being utterly frank here with no intention to offend)

Laurie S



[This message was edited by Laurie Saunders on Thu 10 June 2004 at 18:11.]

[This message was edited by Laurie Saunders on Thu 10 June 2004 at 18:21.]

Well said Laurie

I used to have a considerable number of friends who taught in places like Hackney in London THEY ALL took early retirement due in main to the increased amount of paper work required, the decrease in contact hours with the kids due to the paper work At the time they all loved teaching and gave up a considerable amount of their own time[ weekends, holidays etc.] to take the kids who some had not left Hackney ever away on YHA Hostel school partys just so they had some experience of the country side No Teacher is either overpaid or underworked in this country
and all of them deserve recognition and a much higher reumeration for what they do.
oldie.

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Originally posted by Laurie Saunders:
All I can say (again)is

(1) Why is it that the only comments that seem to imply that teaching is somehow a cushy number, come from those not emplyed therein?

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Sorry if my points didn't come over better. I don't think teaching is a cushy number but the wages and conditions aren't as bad as many people make out.

My wife works hard at her job, but really enjoys it and it's because she enjoys it that she puts a lot of extra-curricular work in (I'm just back from watching her climb with the school club at the Ratho adventure centre). She's never been all that bothered about what she gets paid (probably because I have a more lucrative but otherwise less rewarding career).

From her comments there is a lot wrong with the current education system (actually a couple of these are my rantings rather than hers!), e.g.:

The lack of "streaming" and the teaching of mixed ability classes looks madness to me (he school does stream) with a given class having students who're studying for different exams and at different speeds - with many who're not interested at all.

The focus on not expelling students no matter what they do.

The complicated and ever changing exam system and curriculum (which as far as I can see looks a lot weaker than the system in place when I left school nearly 20 years ago).

The mountains of paperwork.

The poor handling of race issues which can make teachers lives difficult and cause a lot of classroom stress.

Allowing piss poor teachers to continue in their jobs and in fact not even be penalised via the salary progression system.

Single religion schools - can someone explain to me what the fuck that's all about? I don't think I even spoke to a Catholic until I went to uni, despite lots living in my streets. In Scotland we've even had a Muslim school slated in a recent review because they had no qualified teachers, made no attempt to teach any actual curriculum (the whole purpose of the school seemingly to keep Muslim girls apart from the rest of society). Surely integration has to be a good thing?

Up here the exec seems more interested in focusing on removing brand name soft drinks from schools (and banning cake stalls etc.) that they are about doing anything practical and progressive. Most of the PFI

Back to the original gripe...

I've only just properly read the article originally linked to this thread as the story was in our local paper and it rung a bell...

I actually live about half a mile from where this happened. The road in question is a dual carraigeway with a 30 mile an hour speed limit! There are no residential properties along that stretch of the road. There is the back end (literally) of the shopping centre along one side and a small parade of shops (mainly takeaways) along the other. The houses are all occupied by businesses (doctors, dentists, accountants). Its the one stretch of the Farnborough Road that they haven't put the new bus lane in (hmmm, I suspect they foresaw the revenue gaining prospects as it is the only place where drivers can overtake the buses!)

It has been the subject of many complaints about over zealous speed cameras. The police do use it as a revenue earning as they get an awful lot of people along there and many break the speed limit. I had to laugh when I found out that one of the highways committee had been caught along there! In my opinion it would be safe to drive at up to 40mph along there in most conditions. One of the roads off the roundabouts has a 40mph limit as indeed does the Farnborough Road about half a mile further along when it is single carraigeway and there are actually houses along both sides!

Go figure...

A Talivan was parked up this evening "enforcing" a 40mph speed limit on a section of road with no houses or other buildings on either side.

As it was monitoring and photographing traffic coming from the opposite direction to me, I flashed my lights at all the on-coming traffic after I had passed it.

About half an hour later I was travelling along the same section of road but this time the other way, in the direction being monitored by the Talivan. Although I knew it was there, when you travel along the same stretch of road in both directions several times per day it is easy to forget to watch your speed and not the road ahead...

I was pleased that there was at least one car driver as well as three motorcyclists in the oncoming traffic who were prepared to risk their licences by warning me of the danger ahead to my livelihood by sounding their horns as well as flashing their headlights.



Regards,

Steve.

PS: My taxi is smothered in St George Crosses and a local Lib Dem Councillor (they hold a small majority around here) has told me to contact him immediately if I have any problems with the Council's Enforcement Officer.

Would anyone mind if I got something off my chest ?

No Brian, go ahead. Your posts are really great.

Thanks.

Specifically wrt the fixed position speed cameras - it may be that as the increase of these things has been gradual, it may not be something that you guys have noticed,or even care about, but to me they are really oppressive. These grey boxes are so ugly, and so visible, that it really suggest the Orwellian nightmare of constant surveilance. If you really must have them, then at least get someone like Stark or Rogers or Newson to design something that doesn't visually polute the landscape.

Happy Day !

Brian

Your comments remind me of an encounter with a neighbour in the late 80`s who was complaining about the visual pollution caused by the growth in domestic satellite dishes. I think he was expecting sympathy, until I commented that a much higher priority be given to nuisance caused by the 4 wheeled metal boxes clogging up the gutters in our (then) street...as the owner of one of these boxes, he was not impressed

Laurie S

Yeah, the new BMWs are dead ugly.

I take your point Laurie, but we're both into the realms of opinion here, and I don't think you will persuade enough people to stop using their cars, or park them out of sight (nice idea though). I just don't see why, if you must have them, these cameras must be so ugly.

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Originally posted by Mekon:
Yeah, the new BMWs are dead ugly.

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Mate, I've seen your forum picture and you're on dodgy ground !

And while you mention satellite dishes, we need planning permission to put up a dish (consevation area with article 4 on the front - basically like "Listed Building restriction). I have a tiny tiny little dish on the back of the chimney where no-one would ever notice, and my next door neighbour who shares the chimney didn't know it had been there for 6 months until I pointed it out to him. I know the restriction is there to prevent massive dishes stuck on the front of houses, but there should be some sense to the rule. My point is that my dish is small and hidden, but the array of TV ariels throughout the street - some even on taller masts - are hideous, but legally OK. So what about them, eh?!

What about those ugly Ron Smith aerials then?

Ducks and runs for cover...

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Originally posted by Brian OReilly:
Mate, I've seen your forum picture and you're on dodgy ground !

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Brian, I was flattered the other night, but you just don't do it for me. I know you find rejection hard, but the bitchy comments make you even less attractive. Oh, and offering to pay for it was just desperate.

Love and kisses.

PS, if you don't stop with the PMs, I will have to forward them to Richard.

OK Mekon. But Hey ! Didn't we almost have it all ? The ride with you was worth the fall.

I'll always be waiting........

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I just don't see why, if you must have them, these cameras must be so ugly

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I`m sure the looks are not accidental......I`m guessing that someone has really thought it through, to achieve excatly the effect you describe...ie appear intimidating

Laurie S

I presume they have Planning Permission for these cameras?