The 'Slab' Effect

Let you know what happens!

Regards,
Frank.

A good rack is the next step, but room layout means I need at least a five tier (preferably six, for adding an XPS) rack to put everything except my LP12 on (that's on a wall shelf above the rack), but also I want a "fit and forget" rack, so I don't think Mana is an option, everything has to fit in the space under the LP12 so all those "phases" are'nt an option, and I would then feel I was missing out.

This new Isoblue stuff seems interesting, if for no other reason than cost, and recent posts seem positive and there's also a dealer in Brum.

This forum usually has an answer for everything, but equipment supports, well that's another matter!

Ade

I recently found when I took the carpets up on my floor that the floorboards are a long way from being ideal - old and spongey would probably be the best description. As a trial (based on seeing this on several set-ups), I bought a couple of the heaviest paving slabs I could find, and put my speakers (Wilson Benesch Actors) on top. Undoubtedly this was a more stable than previous. However, in my situation, I found the slabs to totally ruin the sound, the most grievous fault was that the bass seemed to lose all subtlety in favour of more slam. As ever, you have to try all these things yourself and see what works for you.

David

Lerxst

When the time comes I might try to talk Griffin Audio into lending me the Isoblue as well so at least I can compare different makes.

I'm sure that in the view of some others you've done the unthinkable, replacing Mana with QS, so could you elaborate when you say it sounds better.

Ade

On second thought, maybe it's Non-Ferrous Larry, superdealer. If so, please accept my apologies and do educate us on what we should be hearing in those over-priced, under-performing, bass-muddling JMLab speakers.

Vuk.

"Seems we've got yet another boybander here. He's obviously not heard Mana and just trolling with all the classic clichés. Just ignore him."

Vuk,

From what I can gather our friend with the QS previously used a 5 tier Mana stand. He has given his reasons why he changed to QS, he preferred the presentation of QS to Mana.

All this, IMHO, he put forward in a very eloquent manner.

This poor chap is now sentenced to a boy band & is accused of being a troll. He looks like a victim of the 'Vuk kangaroo court' to me.

FWIW I prefer Hutter to Mana for similar reasons to Lerxst, & yes I have lived with both.

Bob

Abe, just listen to all of them in the comfort of your own room if you can. Take your time with them since only then will the "ease" become apparent.

To clarify, for Vuks sake, I did have a 5 tier Mana, along with LP12, Lingo, Aro, Troika, 82/2xflatcaps/180 & SBLs. My first LP12 was purchased nearly 25 years ago, soon followed by the first of many Naims. I now have as my previous post states a far lesser system, which requires I get the best I can for the least outlay. Does this make me a "boybander"?

Vuk calls anyone a boy-bander who doesn't use their real name (including surname) on the forum, the idea being that member's of boybands are often known by nicknames or first names only.

Of course if Lerxxst *is* your real name then he owes you an apology.

In fact if sci-fi comics are anything to go by, the proper form of address for a anyone who's real name actually was 'Lerxxst' would be something along the lines of "Oh Mighty One..."

I hope you've got your raygun handy Vuk.

All the best,
David

I accept that we all have different tastes in products, but when someone joins our forum, refuses to use a real name, subscribes through a hotmail-type e-mail address, provides nothing but sarcasm in his profile, then goes on to present the typical stereotype of Mana that people who haven't heard it seem to hold, can you blame me for thinking it's a troll?

At my place, Mana doesn't make things hard or accelerated, In fact, quite the opposite: it relaxes the music into a natural pace and one is drawn in by the luxurious textures/detail. I can't really imagine anyone not falling in love with what it does here, but I accept that maybe, as the result of my obsessive-compulsive personality, I've done a better-than-average job of setup or even, to some extent, that the effect could be room/floor dependent. I really don't think we should be having these Mana/Hutter feuds when the more important message is that people not using them are almost certainly hearing their hi-fi perform at less than half of its potential.

Vuk.

You stick to your Quadraspire Stands and don't let Vuk bully you around. As far as I know Vuk hasn't even heard the Quadraspire so his comments can only be taken with a pinch of salt. I've been doing a bit of stand evaluation myself recently and can certainly see where you are coming from in liking the Quadraspire.

You don't mention what mains block and leads you are using. If you are a follower of the Audio Councel school of setup, then the Quadraspire stands are generally used as an integral part of an overall setup philosophy that also includes the MusicWorks mains block and leads.

I've heard the QS/MusicWorks setup used with CDX based systems (typically CDX/102/180) on a number of occasions and I've always been extremely impressed with the results. I have absolutely no doubt that this kind of setup has serious music making abilities that would easily shame many much more expensive systems.

Allan

OK, I will be the first to go along with using one's real name on this forum. That is one of the reasons why I don't think I will be posting on the 'other' forum in future.

I'm fairly sure that Lerxxst is not a proper name & I personally would appreciate some form of de cloaking in future. Lerxxst has only posted a handful of times here & maybe is not familiar with the house rules.

What I have a problem with, & I hate to say it is becoming increasingly more irritating for myself & others is a handful of Mana 'fundamentalists'. I personally place yourself on the fringe of this & not a hard core member, who seem hell bent on ramming their worshiped product down everyone's throat, whether or not an initial enquiry actually involved supports or not.

Mana is good, I've never disputed that, but it is not for everyone's taste. I have a good fried who tried some of my Mana at his home and found the effect too up front & in your face. In his opinion the Mana effect is just that , an effect, but not a musical benefit. I think he is now considering a more mellow approach with some
wooden stands, & no, they are not Hutter.

There are many good support systems out there. Hutter & Mana IMHO are two of the better ones, but there are others to suit different preferences in presentation and budget.

I am quite prepared to believe that Lerxxst once owned Mana & now prefers QS, fine, they are both good stands that go about the music making business in their own ways.

I personally do not believe that there is a Mana/Hutter feud. What I do believe is that a small minority of Mana users are totally blinkered to the possibility that another make of support might be suitable for another person.

I will be out of circulation for a few days, so nothing personal if I don't contribute to the forum for a while.

Seasons greetings,

Bo

I agree with what you've said about different tastes--in fact, I started off my last message with something to that effect. What I have difficulty with are claims about products that do not at all match what I am hearing. This business about Mana sounding hard, forward or unrelenting is not at all what I have experienced and I am genuinely curious about what is causing such impressions in others. In my system, if Mana made things any more laid back and pretty, we would be entering round-earth,slop-monster territory fairly quickly. Given my problems with the CD player, the last thing I want is a harder or more forward sound. I have no explanation for why some are hearing this, although the obvious one about improper setup seems in line with their observations.

One more thing, this business about a metal and glass stand sounding hard as the result of these being physically hard materials is completely outrageous and the type of analysis I would expect from a 6 year-old (well, apart from Mr. Pig's children). Even with a more sophisticated formulation that relies on the sound these materials make, the logic would dictate that an LP12 sounds zingy and nasty, just the way its steel platter rings. The prejudice is further fed by the fact that shite glass and metal stands like Soundstyle do happen to sound very much the way they ring. Their designers were probably never educated in the principles of Judo, although it's diffult to conjure how a Hell's Angels apprenticeship would teach one the subtleties of using your enemy's energy to your advantage.

BTW--my friend I heard some Hutter racks yesterday and says they made the music sound knotted, thwaky, woody, soft and splintered.

Verxxxsk.

Vuk

Perhaps it's because others are listening with THEIR ears and you are listening with yours. I've heard stuff (ok..at shows) that has driven me out of a room it was so bad. Yet there have been people sitting there with big grins on their faces because they like it. What you find to be very good someone else may easily find 'hard' and 'upfront'.

Brian

You boybanders do stick together

I understand what you are saying, but it's not as if we've got an Audio Research user hearing things in a radically different way from a Naim user. Usually, when there is disagreement here about matters such as forward or hard, the debate is along the lines of one person liking it mushy, the other saying it's more realistic. Here we have completely opposite impressions (boybander says it's hard, I say it's relaxed) and it makes no sense. The simpler interpretations are: 1) troll, 2) bad setup.

Vuk.

Or it might just be that his perception of the sound is different from other folks. An audiologist friend of mine says there is more difference in hearing from one person to another than from Naim to Krell or Hutter to Mana. Food for thought.

Che ers,

Bob @ Qwest¸

I don't 'stick' with anyone, I simply have my own point of view. I'll give you a quick example. My brother thinks that SBL's sound very bass heavy. I've read more than one post on this forum accusing SBL's of having no bass at all. I find it unbelievable that anyone finds SBL's either light or heavy in the bass! Nevertheless, people do think this. All I am doing here is pointing out that we all hear things in a different way and that you should just accept it. Why does it matter to you if someone prefers the floor to Mana?

It was suggested by David that your definition of 'boybander' is someone not posting their real name or their fullname. Since I do both, (just check my profile), I'd suggest a more accurate definition is someone who doesn't agree with you.

Brian

Sorry about that, I forgot that you had it in the profile.

Vuk.

I was suffering from quite bass light SBLS until I discovered the slab effect...

My house suffers from very loose and springy floorboards. Also my room is not ideal, ie. square instead of rectangular and a bit small.

Two small squares of granite underneath the SBLs and...

Hallelujah... well balanced bass if I don't sit too near the centre of the room; and after a days listening I noticed improvements in the mid-range and top end too.

And the moral of this story is...

We all have different tastes in the way we like to hear music and more importantly we all listen to music in different environments, so, different stands and slabs, racks etc. will have different effects depending on blah, blah, blah...

Vuk

Being a bit of an amateur shrink I would say that you are suffering from attention defecit disorder. I make this judgement based on the fact that you do tend to make insulting remarks about other members based on your own, oh, too self important views. Either that or you must be American and a bit of an old windbag. Whare is the edge of the earth anyway?; talking about people who don't use their proper locations.

This being the season of goodwill:

Merry syphyllis and a Happy ghonerea

The slabs did great things under the speakers, but I'm having difficulty constructing a rack from six garden slabs!

Ade

Malcolm