Bashing the Beeb

Television is good for that moment in an exposition when it is necessary to describe, say, an ostrich, the Grand Canyon or the strange symmetries of a Mandelbrot set. [Or a Grahams Hyrda (sic)]
A half hour programme on radio often has 30 minutes of words - directed to a point. A similar television programme is constantly diverting effort and budget to filling the screen with “appropriate” images. The Sealed Knot rehashing the Bombing of Pearl Harbour, a professor in a pair of knee breeches up a tree (vaguely representative of the one Alfred the Great might have sat in) or emphasising the words "It was during the extreme winter of January 1939" by placing the narrator somewhere ostentatiously cold.
It is all so directing, so lacking in any confidence in the audience's ability to think or imagine. If you close your eyes to remove this interference, there isn't enough content to maintain attention.

I don’t intend any malevolence but I actually think that there is much merit in Jon’s emigration suggestion. When I bought my first flat in the UK, the reality of the licence fee dawned as the envelope flopped onto the floor and I must confess that I was initially pissed off. Then it dawned that I’d spent years travelling and living abroad watching shit TV, listening to shit radio, laughing out loud at what passes for balanced news and on my travels since there’s been little change for the better. I’ve heard and seen the BBC World Service in the most unlikely and disparate places and almost universally the output of the BBC is highly regarded for its quality, honesty and integrity. I suggest that those buckling under the burden of the licence fee or feeling short changed by BBC’s radio and television output would benefit from a lengthy spell abroad to sampIe the sobering fare. And no, you wouldn’t be allowed to access the godsend to all travellers now that is BBC streaming.

I personally think that there is too much dross getting through in an attempt to pander to tabloid tastes and can’t bear a lot of the output that others patently love, but conversely I’m sure that my favoured output would drive many to distraction. The BBC is public service and by definition needs to be, and is, something for everyone not everything for everyone. Christ, just have a scan through the alternatives and you’d struggle to piece together half a night’s viewing. ITV? Can anyone do more than 2 minutes without reaching for the bottle; Ross Kemp in a Kaffiyeh…FFS! And if you want an example of a once promising channel dumbed down then Ch4 has to be the prime example. Also see how long you can get by listening solely to commercial radio. With the odd exception it’s excruciating drivel.

I pay that tool Murdoch some ridiculous figure basically for NickJr, CBeebies, some absolute gems on BBC4 and until I got my box set, Seinfeld. For a fifth or sixth of what I pay Murdoch, I get to listen to the likes of Charlie Gillit, Radcliffe, Lammar, Bob Harris, Robert Elms, Mark Steele, Marcus Brigstocke, John Shuttleworth etc. Again, if you think that the BBC news and current affairs is dumbed down, I’d love to know what you’re using as a yardstick. At work I flip between about six news channels as well as online feeds. While News24 isn’t exceptional it’s certainly no worse than its competitors and considerably better than most. I find Radio4 news output to be first rate. The last documentary I watched on the BBC was the Power of Nightmares and whilst I think that this doomsday format has been done to death by all channels, this particular series was almost universally adjudged to be outstanding in every respect.

Your rant about anti-Israeli and anti-American bias is tired, weak and unsupported twaddle and on the numerous occasions that this premise has been stretchered on and off these boards, it has been exposed as such.

The vacuity of your accusation of political bias has already been correctly addressed by others.

Hifi enthusiasts don’t live in a bubble and with notable exceptions are worldly-wise, well-informed and analytical. I am genuinely surprised that you’ve chanced upon a great swathe of intelligent (I’m assuming) people who share your loathing of the BBC, or are they just irritated by some perceived elements? After Butler and Hutton I feel that I know what all of my contacts think about the BBC and aside from some a few whinges about the licence fee, ironically usually proffered in the middle of an overpriced meal or a night in Gordon’s cellars, I can only recall one person who expressed hatred of the BBC and a desire for it’s demise and he was a ridiculously bitter little man with a sackful of the usual issues, a horrid brylcreemed Douglas Alexander looky-likey who foolishly based his case on only 2 of your points i.e. only one third of a wholly unconvincing argument. The BBC is a magnet for people with axes to grind and chips on their shoulders and when they don’t see it flying their flag the incoherent whinging starts and the old plotlines are wheeled out.

I think that the BBC is a bit like that old sex and air line, in that neither of them seems like any big deal until you’re not getting any. As Fritz said, if Murdoch and commercial radio get the reins of the whole shooting match you’ll be pining for the good old days of the licence fee.

Welcome back, bigmick - IMHO you don't post here often enough

Your post is a welcome and timely antithesis to the right-wing bile we've had to put up with above.

BTW - Seinfeld - nice one! I've got the box set too. Forgotten how funny it is having not seen it on broadcast TV for so long!

Cheers,

JR

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Originally posted by Earwicker:
Rasher,

Yes, quite. Well said!

Adam - Television IS television, but if just 50 % of air-time was given over to the drivel we'd be getting somewhere. As Rasher says, after all the crap soaps and "reality TV" and holiday/relocation programmes and re-runs, all we're left with worth a damn is... er... well, Channel 4 News basically.

Radio is the BBC's trump card. Just compare Radio 3 with the lamentable Classic FM...!


*** Every silver lining has a cloud ***

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Earwicker

You don't watch enough telly. To say C4 News is the only "good" thing on is garbage.

I have this week's (1 to 7 Jan) Radio Times in front of me, and I offer you quite a few of the week's "Quality TV highlights":

BBC1
Big Cat Diary (a whole week of programmes on, well, big cats - great educational stuff to watch with the kids)
Child of Our Time (a good example of Auntie's community programming)
Question Time (isn't Clare Short ace?)
Little Britain (according to taste)

BBC 2
A History of Britain By Simon Schama (OK it's a repeat but worth watching)
New Year's Day Concert from Vienna
Round the Horne Revisited
Natural World
Tribe
Cathedral
Drugland
Dragon's Den
Attack On Pearl Harbour
How To watch Wildlife
The Keith Barrett Show

Then you have Auntie's digital channels (if you want to get tthem, you can pick up a Freeview box for £40, and get 50-odd TV and radio channels with NO subscription)

BBC 3
Little Britain
The Smoking Room Xmas Special
Monkey Dust (brilliant satire - try it)
1-2 FU (entertaining doc on the rise of punk)
Note: I can't see the point of BBC3 - much of this stuff could be on BBC1, 2 or 4 and the money better spent elsewhere

BBC4
Brecon Jazz 2004
Pennies From Heaven
Brimstone & Treacle
Arena on Dennis Potter
Light Fantastic (superlative documentary)
Martin Scorsese Presents the Blues
The Sky At Night (excellent special on the Cassini probe)
The Mark steel Lectures
In the footsteps of Alexander the Great
Proms On Four
In Search Of Speed
World Cinema Awards

Then there is the week's programming you can find on Channel 4, five (yes - they have some gems, especially in the field of arts documentaries!) and ITV - stuff like Shameless, Tim Marlow on Raphael, The West Wing, Simpsons, Dead Man Weds, Desperate Housewives (good fun), Divine Designs, Mystery of The Hunley, The Unseen Eric Morecombe, the Art of Travel, South Bank Show, etc etc

Now, some of this may not be to your taste but all of it is well-made and entertaining; and much of it is highly original and educational.
There is huge amounts of garbage out there, certainly, but the above list would give you AT LEAST three or four hours' quality viewing a night, which is surely enough for anyone.

Kevin

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Originally posted by bigmick:
Your rant about anti-Israeli and anti-American bias is tired, weak and unsupported twaddle and on the numerous occasions that this premise has been stretchered on and off these boards, it has been exposed as such.

The vacuity of your accusation of political bias has already been correctly addressed by others.

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Bigmick,

I thought that your post was good and I agree with most of the points you made. Although individual tastes vary, I also agree with Kevin-W's post above. However, I must take issue with the statements that I've highlighted and the way that you've made them.

People are perfectly justified in believing that the BBC shows political bias and many believe just that. This is quite clearly a matter of opinion and individual judgement. Just because you don't agree with a view doesn't make it 'vacuous, tired, weak or unsupported twaddle' and, as far as I know, no such 'exposure' has been made on these boards that isn't itself a matter of opinion.

Not for the first time, you criticize the views of others for being without foundation without examining the support that you make for your own criticisms. All you can really say is that you disagree.

Happy New Year, by the way. Good to see you back.
Steve M

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Originally posted by matthewr:
_"detector vans"_

*giggles* Um, you realise that, like Santa and The Tooth Fairy, they don't actually exist?

Matthew

EDIT: Maybe I nmissed some irony?

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Actually, they DO exist. I saw one driving up the Wells road in Bath, about twelve years ago. It was one of those pale blue, 1960s jobbies with the massive aerial on the roof.

What they DON'T do, of course, is detect televisions.

quote:

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Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
Television is good for that moment in an exposition when it is necessary to describe, say, an ostrich, the Grand Canyon or the strange symmetries of a Mandelbrot set. [Or a Grahams Hyrda (sic)]
A half hour programme on radio often has 30 minutes of words - directed to a point. A similar television programme is constantly diverting effort and budget to filling the screen with “appropriate” images. The Sealed Knot rehashing the Bombing of Pearl Harbour, a professor in a pair of knee breeches up a tree (vaguely representative of the one Alfred the Great might have sat in) or emphasising the words "It was during the extreme winter of January 1939" by placing the narrator somewhere ostentatiously cold.
It is all so directing, so lacking in any confidence in the audience's ability to think or imagine. If you close your eyes to remove this interference, there isn't enough content to maintain attention.

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Easily one of the most sensible posts I have seen in the Padded Cell. Cheers Adam.

Producers of adult television aim their product at the 12 year old mind. I have yet to see a television program that stretches my mind. While I enjoy the odd comedy and I do watch the news I find as I get older I care less and less about the damned box and more and more about my records.

Deane

Steve
I’m quite sure that between you, I and a few other contributors we’ve successfully bored the tits clean off half the forum and I’m way too chilled to get heavy into this again. As you rightly say people are entitled to believe anything they wish and if they can justify that to themselves then fair enough, I’ve no desire to proselytize.

If, however, they are attempting to forcefully present their assertion as fact, accepted wisdom or a generally held belief then there simply has to be credible, verifiable and independent evidence in support. It is not my opinion that makes the assertion unsupported, vacuous and weak but this very obvious lack of evidence.

Let me make it clear that whilst I stand behind my defence of the BBC and am amazed at how it could be the object of such vitriol and loathing, I’m not married to it and if anyone produced a raft of credible evidence showing there to be an institutionalised bias of the nature alleged in the thread starter then I would have to suck it up and accept the charges. Though I have say, that given that the strength of the BBC in so many areas I would still take some convincing of the merit of tearing down or breaking up the corporation in favour of a free for all.

Cheers Jon, well rested and a face like a satchel. Curb and Seinfeld came with and an episode each morning before breakfast kept me giggling all day. Tremendous.

A happy and prosperous 2005 to you both.

Radio 3 and you don't need to pay the license fee. Need I say more.

Matthew

DVD, Plasma, choose what you watch

No license fee

Matthew

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Originally posted by Matthew T:

DVD, Plasma, choose what you watch

No license fee

Matthew

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But no "vidjo" (or any other kind of TV tuner) or you're in serious trouble. I see Aldi are doing 'pooter TV tuners. That would have them salivating in the detector vans too, I expect.

Nime

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Originally posted by Tim Danaher:
Actually, they DO exist. I saw one driving up the Wells road in Bath, about twelve years ago. It was one of those pale blue, 1960s jobbies with the massive aerial on the roof.

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Spotted - an early prototype NAIM car radio - with Ron Smith Roof Aerial.

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Originally posted by Adam Meredith:

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Spotted - an early protype NAIM car radio - with Ron Smith Roof Aerial.[/QUOTE]

The rumour mill starts....

The first car audio so expensive that it includes a free car?

No but the power supply looked a little like ..... a caravan.

[This message was edited by Adam Meredith on Fri 07 January 2005 at 21:19.]

Google is your fiend?

http://www.turnoffyourtv.com/international/bbc.html

Nime

I think that this seems to be rather good value, have BB will listen.

PS pick a prog