Maxine Carr
Posted by: Alex S. on 14 May 2004
Give the poor woman a break, I say. And I say this as someone with small beautiful girls whose worst nightmare is what happened in Soham.
Posted on: 14 May 2004 by long-time-dead
Bold statement Alex. I also have two daughters and would like to propose a differing view.....
"If Maxine Carr is now not a threat to society due to her early release, why not rehabilitate her in Soham as a member of the community and spend the money it would have cost to watch over her and to create her a new identity on a new Community Centre in Soham in memory of the children."
"If Maxine Carr is now not a threat to society due to her early release, why not rehabilitate her in Soham as a member of the community and spend the money it would have cost to watch over her and to create her a new identity on a new Community Centre in Soham in memory of the children."
Posted on: 14 May 2004 by Chris Brandon
Alex,
You are a very brave man.
I also have two young daughters.....I just could not take any chances.
She may indeed have had no knowledge of what was actually happening,but there is only really one person who knows this either way.
Hand on heart Alex,would you really be comfortable with her in your neighberhood ? I know that I would not.
I found the Soham incident to be emotive in the extreme.
Regards
Chris
You are a very brave man.
I also have two young daughters.....I just could not take any chances.
She may indeed have had no knowledge of what was actually happening,but there is only really one person who knows this either way.
Hand on heart Alex,would you really be comfortable with her in your neighberhood ? I know that I would not.
I found the Soham incident to be emotive in the extreme.
Regards
Chris
Posted on: 14 May 2004 by Former member
quote:
Originally posted by Alex S.:
Give the poor woman a break, I say.
Hear, hear.
By all means prosecute her for misdemeanours, but to be persecuted for the rest of her life for being weak and stupid is senseless. Should we crucify every drug-dealer's partner for fearful acquiescence?
long time dead
Did your quote come from the Daily Mail, perchance? It is, at best, naïve.
Robin
Posted on: 14 May 2004 by Duncan Fullerton
OK. I'll try not to allow myself to get dragged into this mire, but I agree with Alex.
The hysterical rantings of some of the national newspapers (The Sun) doesnt help.
We expect our judiciary to pass appropriate tarriffs for crimes committed. However heinous the underlying crime involved, she has served her tariff for her paticular crime, end of story.
If we harry and hound her to satisfy some blood ill thought out blood lust, then we loose sight of the basic pinciples on which our system is founded, and we move towards a vigilante society. Not for me, thanks.
As usual, YMMV
Duncan
The hysterical rantings of some of the national newspapers (The Sun) doesnt help.
We expect our judiciary to pass appropriate tarriffs for crimes committed. However heinous the underlying crime involved, she has served her tariff for her paticular crime, end of story.
If we harry and hound her to satisfy some blood ill thought out blood lust, then we loose sight of the basic pinciples on which our system is founded, and we move towards a vigilante society. Not for me, thanks.
As usual, YMMV
Duncan
Posted on: 14 May 2004 by Roy T
I must support the view expressed by Alex.
I do feel that some of the public are seeking additional punishment over and above that ordered by our judges, this hints of the crowds roaring for a "thumbs down" from the emperor prior to releasing the wild beasts into the arena.
Roy T
I do feel that some of the public are seeking additional punishment over and above that ordered by our judges, this hints of the crowds roaring for a "thumbs down" from the emperor prior to releasing the wild beasts into the arena.
Roy T
Posted on: 14 May 2004 by Former member
I delibrately didn't follow the case in the news because there was so much fury in the press so you will have to correct me if I'm wrong.
I thought Ms Carr was committed for lying to the police rather than for murder. Did she do something else or is it frightening to have a convicted perjury living next door?
I thought Ms Carr was committed for lying to the police rather than for murder. Did she do something else or is it frightening to have a convicted perjury living next door?
Posted on: 14 May 2004 by Roy T
I for one would wish to live next door to the Lord Archer.
Roy T
Roy T
Posted on: 14 May 2004 by Former member
I wouldn't nor Aitken. Actual having no neighbours is best.
Posted on: 14 May 2004 by long-time-dead
Emeritus
My quote came from my head and heart - I do not read newspapers.
She did not commit the murders but lied through her teeth to the police about it. That is fact.
The intense suffering that the families, community and country endured as a result of her blatant lying to protect the murdering scum that she was involved with is without defence.
Do you have children ? Would you be comfortable with her living next door ? Would you trust any of her close friends ?
Weak, stupid - I think not. Cold hearted and calculating spring to mind.
Duncan
I agree - she has served her time. Put her back into society as a "free" woman and save the country untold fortunes to help catch another murderer or, even better, prevent it happening. Society should learn to accept time-served criminals if they can prove their worth in society as reformed individuals.
I am not calling for any form of vigilante action but if the state persist in pursuing freedom for people like Maxine Carr without protecting society from the likes of her, then we are living in a country that panders to the criminal.
Her actions in lying fuelled the ill feelings towards her. If she contacted the police the minute she found out everyone's attitude would have been more favourable. Therefore she was wrong, 100% wrong.
Chris
You obviously felt as I did when it happened. The event raised the fear in your heart for your children as it did in mine.
Love them with all your heart, teach them the values that mean something in life.
My quote came from my head and heart - I do not read newspapers.
She did not commit the murders but lied through her teeth to the police about it. That is fact.
The intense suffering that the families, community and country endured as a result of her blatant lying to protect the murdering scum that she was involved with is without defence.
Do you have children ? Would you be comfortable with her living next door ? Would you trust any of her close friends ?
Weak, stupid - I think not. Cold hearted and calculating spring to mind.
Duncan
I agree - she has served her time. Put her back into society as a "free" woman and save the country untold fortunes to help catch another murderer or, even better, prevent it happening. Society should learn to accept time-served criminals if they can prove their worth in society as reformed individuals.
I am not calling for any form of vigilante action but if the state persist in pursuing freedom for people like Maxine Carr without protecting society from the likes of her, then we are living in a country that panders to the criminal.
Her actions in lying fuelled the ill feelings towards her. If she contacted the police the minute she found out everyone's attitude would have been more favourable. Therefore she was wrong, 100% wrong.
Chris
You obviously felt as I did when it happened. The event raised the fear in your heart for your children as it did in mine.
Love them with all your heart, teach them the values that mean something in life.
Posted on: 14 May 2004 by Mick P
Maxine Carr deliberately lied to the police during a murder investigation of a particularly nasty nature.
For that alone she should get 10 years.
I also think it is unacceptable for the taxpayer to shell out what is effectively protection money for her, so if the cheapest option is to retain her in prision for a long time as a warning to any one else, then so be it.
Let her rot in prision.
Regards
Mick
For that alone she should get 10 years.
I also think it is unacceptable for the taxpayer to shell out what is effectively protection money for her, so if the cheapest option is to retain her in prision for a long time as a warning to any one else, then so be it.
Let her rot in prision.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 14 May 2004 by matthewr
a) I agree with Alex
b) In order to properly understnad Soham you have to realise that each year there are a (thankfully) small number of children abducted and killed by strangers.
Statistically if you are white and middle class you are exteremely unlikely to be a victim of such a crime.
If you are white, middle class and get abducted during a slow news day you might well be as well known as the Soham girls. YOur killer might well be as infmaous as Huntley.
If you are black, live in an unpleasant part of Birmingham and get abducted and murdered at about the same time (as did happen) it's unlikely that anyone will remember your name or that you or your killer (who wont becaught) will make any headlines.
Matthew
b) In order to properly understnad Soham you have to realise that each year there are a (thankfully) small number of children abducted and killed by strangers.
Statistically if you are white and middle class you are exteremely unlikely to be a victim of such a crime.
If you are white, middle class and get abducted during a slow news day you might well be as well known as the Soham girls. YOur killer might well be as infmaous as Huntley.
If you are black, live in an unpleasant part of Birmingham and get abducted and murdered at about the same time (as did happen) it's unlikely that anyone will remember your name or that you or your killer (who wont becaught) will make any headlines.
Matthew
Posted on: 14 May 2004 by long-time-dead
Matthew
Forget race, creed or colour.
It is wrong - 100% wrong.
End of story.
Forget race, creed or colour.
It is wrong - 100% wrong.
End of story.
Posted on: 14 May 2004 by count.d
Matthew,
a) I don't agree with Alex. I was going to say that I find it incredible that people could have simpathy with a devious accomplice to the worst crime possible, but having since joined this forum, it doesn't suprise me, as there are always people who seem to enjoy stating the complete opposite of common sense. This is because either they like to rile people or they get a sense of individuality by being the odd one out.
b) What the hell has that got to do with anything.
Maxine Carr should be locked up for a long, long time.
a) I don't agree with Alex. I was going to say that I find it incredible that people could have simpathy with a devious accomplice to the worst crime possible, but having since joined this forum, it doesn't suprise me, as there are always people who seem to enjoy stating the complete opposite of common sense. This is because either they like to rile people or they get a sense of individuality by being the odd one out.
b) What the hell has that got to do with anything.
Maxine Carr should be locked up for a long, long time.
Posted on: 14 May 2004 by matthewr
Well quite, long-time-dead.
Although if you are black and some from inner city Birmingham don't expect anyone to remember you or make a fuss if an accessory to your murder is released 18 months later.
BTW I'm not making this up. There really was a 10 year old black girl from inner city Birmingham abducted, sexually assualted and murdered on more or less the same day and in much the same way as the Soham girls. The only reason you know about the Soham girls and Maxine Carr and Huntley is becuase of when it happened (the Summer, not much news around), the nature of the victims, and the iconic photograph of them in the Machester United shirts.
Which is not to reduce the severity of the crimes in Soham. But it should make you all think (at least a bit).
Matthew
Although if you are black and some from inner city Birmingham don't expect anyone to remember you or make a fuss if an accessory to your murder is released 18 months later.
BTW I'm not making this up. There really was a 10 year old black girl from inner city Birmingham abducted, sexually assualted and murdered on more or less the same day and in much the same way as the Soham girls. The only reason you know about the Soham girls and Maxine Carr and Huntley is becuase of when it happened (the Summer, not much news around), the nature of the victims, and the iconic photograph of them in the Machester United shirts.
Which is not to reduce the severity of the crimes in Soham. But it should make you all think (at least a bit).
Matthew
Posted on: 14 May 2004 by matthewr
Count.d said "Maxine Carr should be locked up for a long, long time"
Ok, why? Please state your reasons without resort to the sort of emotive reasoning favoured by tabloid editors.
Matthew
Ok, why? Please state your reasons without resort to the sort of emotive reasoning favoured by tabloid editors.
Matthew
Posted on: 14 May 2004 by count.d
quote:
The only reason you know about the Soham girls and Maxine Carr and Huntley is becuase of when it happened (the Summer, not much news around), the nature of the victims, and the iconic photograph of them in the Machester United shirts.
That's true, but you missed out the main point, that they were both pretty and they were missing before the death.
As for making a point without resorting to emotive reasoning like tabloid editors, I will have to imagine their writing style as I never buy papers.
Perhaps if you put yourself in her position at the time of the murders and your partner asked you to cover up the fact that they had murdered someone, would you do it? Does that sound like normal civilised behaviour? and if it's not civilised behaviour, then that person should be taken out of civilisation.
Punishment is not only given to teach the perpetrator a lesson, it's to make an example to everyone else.
Posted on: 14 May 2004 by matthewr
"Perhaps if you put yourself in her position at the time of the murders and your partner asked you to cover up the fact that they had murdered someone, would you do it? Does that sound like normal civilised behaviour? and if it's not civilised behaviour, then that person should be taken out of civilisation"
No, I said *without* emotive (and in your case innacurate) tabloid language.
She was guilty of perverting the course of justice. for which she served a jail term. She was not guilty of anything to do with the abduction or murder.
Matthew
No, I said *without* emotive (and in your case innacurate) tabloid language.
She was guilty of perverting the course of justice. for which she served a jail term. She was not guilty of anything to do with the abduction or murder.
Matthew
Posted on: 14 May 2004 by count.d
quote:
No, I said *without* emotive (and in your case innacurate) tabloid language.
She was guilty of perverting the course of justice. for which she served a jail term. She was not guilty of anything to do with the abduction or murder.
I never said she had anything to do with the murder or abduction and I'm saying the jail term should have been far longer.
Posted on: 14 May 2004 by matthewr
"I'm saying the jail term should have been far longer"
Ok, on what basis? What unique properties of Carr's offence and her circumstances requires a longer sentence than normal for her crime?
Or, to put it another way, how can we learn from the Carr case to change the sentencing and probation guideline in the future? Specifically what aspects of this crime require such a change?
Matthew
Ok, on what basis? What unique properties of Carr's offence and her circumstances requires a longer sentence than normal for her crime?
Or, to put it another way, how can we learn from the Carr case to change the sentencing and probation guideline in the future? Specifically what aspects of this crime require such a change?
Matthew
Posted on: 14 May 2004 by Steve Toy
I say give her a break. She showed remorse and was not even present at the time of the murders, unlike Mrya Hindley.
Moreover, she almost certainly buried ger head in the sand and went into denial at the prospect that her beloved had committed such terrible crimes.
It is not a crime to love someone unconditionally even if the one you love is a killer.
My sister worked for Cambridgeshire Police at the time and was on the Soham case. Having worked around the clock sifting through evidence in order to try to find the girls alive, she was in tears upon learning that they were dead, and this was before the news even reached the press. As upsetting as the well-publicised events were, and still are to this day, it is unfair to make Maxine Carr a scapegoat for the crimes of her (ex) lover.
Regards,
Steve.
Moreover, she almost certainly buried ger head in the sand and went into denial at the prospect that her beloved had committed such terrible crimes.
It is not a crime to love someone unconditionally even if the one you love is a killer.
My sister worked for Cambridgeshire Police at the time and was on the Soham case. Having worked around the clock sifting through evidence in order to try to find the girls alive, she was in tears upon learning that they were dead, and this was before the news even reached the press. As upsetting as the well-publicised events were, and still are to this day, it is unfair to make Maxine Carr a scapegoat for the crimes of her (ex) lover.
Regards,
Steve.
Posted on: 14 May 2004 by Former member
quote:Of course Mick is right. Lying in public is a heinous crime which is totally without justification. These whinging liberals who believe compassion and forgiveness are part of what makes us civillised and that rehabilitation is more constructive than retribution make me sick.
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Maxine Carr deliberately lied to the police during a murder investigation of a particularly nasty nature.
For that alone she should get 10 years.
I also think it is unacceptable for the taxpayer to shell out what is effectively protection money for her, so if the cheapest option is to retain her in prision for a long time as a warning to any one else, then so be it.
Let her rot in prision.
Regards
Mick
Where I do take issue with Mick is his suggestion she should rot in jail. The cheapest option and the most effective, of course, is to behead her in public. It will also be innstructive for the general population.
Posted on: 15 May 2004 by Alex S.
Matthew, Steven and others have echoed my thoughts. I love my daughters and would be quite happy for Maxine Carr to move in next door apart from the fact that I would have 300 tabloid journalists living next door too which I would find very distasteful. Nonetheless, I would shoot on sight any motorists going past my front door in the opposite direction to the one-way sign infront of it.
Posted on: 15 May 2004 by Mick P
Matthew / Steven
The reason why Carr should spend a long time in prison is that by lying she delayed the arrest of the real murderer. He could have possibley done it again during the extra time during which he was free. The man was a nutter so it is highly probable that he would have done it again.
The welfare of Carr is irrelevant in cases like this. Just for once in your lives, think of inocent people.
I suspect that you are just trying to promote yourselves as caring liberals when in fact you are putting other peoples welfare at risk.
Regards
Mick
The reason why Carr should spend a long time in prison is that by lying she delayed the arrest of the real murderer. He could have possibley done it again during the extra time during which he was free. The man was a nutter so it is highly probable that he would have done it again.
The welfare of Carr is irrelevant in cases like this. Just for once in your lives, think of inocent people.
I suspect that you are just trying to promote yourselves as caring liberals when in fact you are putting other peoples welfare at risk.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 15 May 2004 by Former member
She committed a crime. Fact.
She was convicted of that crime. Fact.
She served her time. Fact.
Let her be.
To state "He could have possibley [sic] done it again during the extra time during which he was free" is bizarre.
Huntley committed these murders AFTER his records were lost by another police force. Fact.
Does this mean that whomever was in charge of this other police force should also be in jail "until he rots" as (s)he is equally culpable in the Soham murders?
IMHO, the hypocrisy on this forum beggars belief sometimes. There is a thread (about the Berg murder) condemning barbaric acts, yet here on this thread extra-judicial jail sentences are being condoned. Wake the fuck up. Accepting that criminals serve their time and are released is part of being civilised.
ag
Posted on: 15 May 2004 by Bruce Woodhouse
I am unclear how Maxine Carr is a danger to the public or indeed to children in particular. What I read of the trial did not suggest she had a history of child abuse or indeed was implicated in the actions of Huntley.
I do not see how I would feel threatened by the presence of this woman in my community. In practical terms, with the level of police surveillance she is likely to receive, I would expect it would be difficult for her break the law on release anyway.
Suggesting excessive punishment for her involvement with Huntley would seem to be a (misguided) attempt to take out more anger and revenge indirectly upon him.
If you believe that all those who lie to the police to cover a serious crime (wether due to stupidity, ignorance, fear, emotional involvement or plain malice) should be locked up for ever then I'll beg to differ but accept your view. If you just feel excessive anger to Carr because of this specific crime (which was undeniably 'media friendly' if such a phrase can be used) then I'd suggest this is illogical.
Bruce
I do not see how I would feel threatened by the presence of this woman in my community. In practical terms, with the level of police surveillance she is likely to receive, I would expect it would be difficult for her break the law on release anyway.
Suggesting excessive punishment for her involvement with Huntley would seem to be a (misguided) attempt to take out more anger and revenge indirectly upon him.
If you believe that all those who lie to the police to cover a serious crime (wether due to stupidity, ignorance, fear, emotional involvement or plain malice) should be locked up for ever then I'll beg to differ but accept your view. If you just feel excessive anger to Carr because of this specific crime (which was undeniably 'media friendly' if such a phrase can be used) then I'd suggest this is illogical.
Bruce