Welcome to Fortress Brighton

Posted by: oldie on 26 September 2004

Having just returned from a Sunday afternoon trip out of town I have had my car and passengers videoed several times each way, whilst both leaving and returning to the town,all the main roads into and out of the city have Police video van units working 24 hours a day recording all traffic passing by them.
Several roads have been closed to the general public and barricaded, the main sea front road has been restricted from in places 3 lanes each way down to 1 lane each way, with a massive steel barrier down the center. There are more police armed with machine guns[ that are not suitable or accurate enough to be used in a area crowded with people]on the roof tops and patroling the streets around the sea front area than you would expect to see in Beirut. Van loads of coppers are being driven all over the city and hundreds if not a thousand or more plods are crawling all over the place, this is not to mention the bl--dy helicopters over head and the alleged warships patroling the sea lanes just of the coast. And why do the people of Brighton have to put up with being made prisoners in there own City? so that Blair and his circus can perform their staged and totaly controlled ritual before the worlds press. So much for our democracy and rights of freedom, you can't even move around in our own town without being eyed with suspicion by several gun toting black clad moronic looking coppers.
RANT OVER
Sorry, oldie.

Posted on: 27 September 2004 by paul99

CCTV does not seem to be much of a deterrent. The car park at my local railway station is equipped with CCTV. The TV monitors are prominently displayed behind the ticket desk.

My daughter's car was stolen from the car park last year. When she returned home and saw that her car was stolen, she asked at the ticket office if they had seen anything.

"Oh yeah. That was your car was it. They weren't much good they had to try three cars before they found one they could break into."

When asked whether the police had been informed:

"Nah - no point."

Regards,

Paul.

Posted on: 27 September 2004 by jlfrs

I do sympathise with the views here that it's a huge and costly incovenience for a town to be under siege for the sake of a convention.
However, it's unavoidable in this day and age that any town or city would effectively become a Police State whilst they're in town. Thank God it's only a few weeks!
So if not Brighton, where else? Perhaps the NEC would be a good venue. It's probably part of the "British Bulldog" in Tony Blair that insists on sticking two fingers up to the terrorists by insisting he "carries on regardless". This on one hand is admirable but on the other had, the sheer amount of protection needed for him to "make a point" smacks of vanity IMHO.
As for cctv, there's always going to be cameras that don't work and staff who don't bother but I still think they can't be doing any harm by being there, albeit as a "minimal" deterrent or as evidence to convict the careless street mugger who manages to get himself on Crimewatch.

Posted on: 27 September 2004 by reductionist

quote:
Originally posted by jlfrs:
Perhaps a suicide bomber wouldn't mind having his or her mug seen on camera but I have to believe that CCTV curbs the movements of most of the criminal fraternity to some degree in all its forms. To my knowledge, there's no cloaking device available to terrorists that allows them to become invisible

A large hat?

Posted on: 27 September 2004 by jlfrs

a cape and a mask might just complete the picture - very inconspicuous....

Posted on: 27 September 2004 by domfjbrown

And that just sums up the railway industry in one succinct post - they couldn't give a toss about passengers.

But that's a different thread...

As for Tony Blair, well, that's criminal - how come for something of that size, central government don't foot the bill for the police costs? For the amount of tax they steal, err, I mean, take off us, they can afford it. They must have billions saved for the next election, courtesy of stealth taxes.

I bet they don't have a camera on the West Pier (what's left of it) though - perfect spot for a missile launcher. I'd pay money to see Blair blown up (have to be a very accurate missile though a la "Runaway", or someone important (ie a crone or a member of the public) might get hit by mistake. Of course, if it happens, there's plenty of CCTV cameras in Exeter to prove it wasn't me

__________________________
Don't wanna be cremated or buried in a grave
Just dump me in a plastic bag and leave me on the pavement
A tribute to your modern world, your great society
I'm just another victim of your highrise fantasy!

Posted on: 27 September 2004 by 7V

quote:
Originally posted by domfjbrown:
... As for Tony Blair, well, that's criminal - how come for something of that size, central government don't foot the bill for the police costs? For the amount of tax they steal, err, I mean, take off us, they can afford it. They must have billions saved for the next election, courtesy of stealth taxes.

They're surely not allowed to spend tax money on election campaigning, are they?

Posted on: 27 September 2004 by JonR

quote:
Originally posted by domfjbrown:
I'd pay money to see Blair blown up (have to be a very accurate missile though a la "Runaway", or someone important (ie a crone or a member of the public) might get hit by mistake.

I hope you are joking, Dom.

Posted on: 27 September 2004 by oldie

quote:
Originally posted by domfjbrown:
... As for Tony Blair, well, that's criminal - how come for something of that size, central government don't foot the bill for the police costs? For the amount of tax they steal, err, I mean, take off us, they can afford it. They must have billions saved for the next election, courtesy of stealth taxes.

Domf,
7V Has just beaten me to answer you, The last time this fiasco took place here, that very question was asked by half the population, by letters to the local paper and on local radio interviews and yes the answer that was given, was that as all the conferances are party political Central Goverment is not allowed to pay for them so it's down to the local police authority and local goverment[ Councils]to foot the bill's apparantly they have a obligation to provide security for the conferances, but not unfortunatly for the rest of us "when the circus leaves town" to quote an old song. So again we will have to put up with cut backs in both the local services and policing over the next twelve months to pay for all of this.
oldie.

Posted on: 27 September 2004 by Steve Toy

Blair is not a tory.

Tories believe in democracy and freedom of the individual.

Blair is a Stalinist.

Regards,

Steve.

Posted on: 27 September 2004 by oldie

Steven,
I don't think the Miners, Steelworkers, Printworkers, Nurses or the Photograpic workers [can't remember the name of the company that were locked out for a couple of years], Firemen,Railway workers Motor Car manufacturing plant workers etc, etc I could go on and on, whoses jobs Thatcher distroyed would actually agree with you on this one.
oldie.

Posted on: 27 September 2004 by Steve Toy

Oldie,

Ah yes.

I do have vague memories of the above industries ruined by unelected union demagogues with revolutionary agendas.

Regards,

Steve.

Posted on: 27 September 2004 by 7V

quote:
Originally posted by oldie:
... Motor Car manufacturing plant workers ...

I thought your lot did for them.

Posted on: 27 September 2004 by Kevin-W

quote:
Originally posted by Steven Toy:
Blair is not a tory.

Tories believe in democracy and freedom of the individual.

Blair is a Stalinist.

Regards,

Steve.

Wrooong!!!

Blair is in fact a centralising Thatcherite (Thatcher herself had Stalinist tendencies, as anyone involved in local government between 1979 and 1990 will attest) with a strong authoritarian streak.

By the way, what's wrong with having a revolutionary agenda? Without revolutionary agendas, we'd still have kids down mines, the slave trade, 6-day, 70-hour working weeks, general exploitation, relgigious and political persectition and rule by the church and aristocracy.

Kevin (BBC Radio 4)

PS - Oldie, the photographic company you were thinking of was Grunwick.

Posted on: 27 September 2004 by Steve Toy

By revolutionary I meant undermining the electoral process and bringing this country to its knees.

Extremists thrive on socio-economic instability.

Demagogues strive for power for their own ends.

The workers just served as pawns.

The Welfare State, free education, health care and workers' rights did not come into being through revolution.

Revolution is simply a process where one tyrant replaces another.

Thatcher introduced legislation to empower workers to decide whether to strike or not through secret ballots, and the outlawing of intimidation by secondary picketing.

Scargill in his sheer contempt for democracy ordered a strike without a ballot, even though he would have stood a good chance of winning had he complied with the law and democratic process.

The result was division among mineworkers and the precipitation of the end of the British mining industry that became Scargill's self-fulfilling prophesy.

As I said, Tories believe in democracy and individual freedom.

Blair, like Scargill, believes in absolute power.

Regards,

Steve.

[This message was edited by Steven Toy on Mon 27 September 2004 at 18:34.]

Posted on: 27 September 2004 by Kevin-W

Posted on: 27 September 2004 by Steve Toy

Lost for words are we Kevin?

Regards,

Steve.

Posted on: 27 September 2004 by oldie

Ahh yes,you are correct, I remember now. Thank you Kevin, the old grey cells have taken a bit of a battering over the years.
Steven,
without wishing to seem to be insulting, sometimes you are somewhat, shall we be polite and say wide of the mark and your inaccurate and ill-informed posts do not deserve to be answered, you were not there,and didn't take part in any of these events, at the time of these terrible happenings,[seeing the police again today here in Brighton reminds me of just what happend in Wapping,Gruwick,Corby and at all the pit heads all over the country] you ,I suspect were only just a sparkle in your dads eye ie not yet amoungst us.I would respectfully suggest to you that you should try to make a couple of thousand burly grown men do something they didn't want to do, you might have been given a altogether new parking place for that taxi of yours.if you wish to keep abreast of reality throw away the Mail and read a real news paper

oldie

Posted on: 27 September 2004 by Steve Toy

I'm now 35.

I live in an (ex) mining community.

I witnessed first-hand at the age of 15 looking down the hill at the entrance to the now closed pit only 500 yards or so from my home.

My grandfather was a miner and so were a number of my uncles.

Welsh secondary pickets travelled over here to kick shit out of anyone who wasn't on (the illegally declared) strike.

This happened in the pubs on a Friday night as well as at the entrance to the pit.

There was a roughly 50/50 split between striking and non-striking miners.

The Welsh secondary pickets infiltrated our pubs and asked two questions:

Are you a miner?

Are you on strike?

If the answer to Q2 was no, our local non-striking guys got beaten up.

Eventually our locals got themselves together and kicked the illegal Welsh secondary pickets out, and they got a good kicking too!

By 1990 our very profitable pit was closed.

Don't ever patronise me cos I know more first-hand about these events than you'll forget.

Many ex-miners are now my taxi colleagues.

As for that taxi space, I don't want it as I'd prefer to be on the move at all times.

Why do you think the UDM (Union of Democratic Minworkers) was formed so as to divide those employed in a very lucrative industry where our face-worker guys were paid in excess of £500 per week back then?

Regards,

Steve.

[This message was edited by Steven Toy on Tue 28 September 2004 at 3:07.]

Posted on: 27 September 2004 by Mick P

Oldie

Scargill was on an ego trip.

Why did he start a strike in the spring knowing that coal stocks were a record high etc. The strike was predicted by both sides to run the rest of the year until the bad weather started in January. He had his members being starved of their wages for nothing.

The man was a moron.

Lions led by a donkey

That strike was the shame of socialism and helped to put Maggie back in power. Even Kinnock did not want it.

It is indefensible.

Regards

Mick

Posted on: 28 September 2004 by oldie

Steve,
as I've already admitted my old grey cells are drifting and if I'm incorrect I'm quite happy to apologize, but I don't remember a miners strike 20 years ago,more like the 70's
Mick,
Mick Scargill was carring out a mandate that was carried by a overwhelming majority of deligates at the Mineworkers conferance. the die had already been cast,some years before. Thatcher had already decided to close the mines ,Steel works, Docks,etc etc You for one would have been one of the first to shout if a union leader failed to carry out the wishes of the members, we can all be wise with hindsight It's one of the most brilliant gifts that we have and things may, and I only say may, as I wasen't party to the inner workings of the Mine workers Union have in other circumstances been better planned but his hands were tied by both the vote at the conferance and Thachers decision to close the, well, I was going to say the mines but that was just the start,now take a look around you there nothing left apart from service industries and most of them are in a mess as well you know.
oldie.

Posted on: 28 September 2004 by MichaelC

quote:
Originally posted by oldie:
now take a look around you there nothing left apart from service industries

This was always going to be the case in a free economy. Heavy industry migrates to where labour and other costs associated with industry are cheaper.

All you need to do now is to look at China which as a manufacturing base offers the lowest base cost.

Mike

Posted on: 28 September 2004 by reductionist

quote:
Originally posted by oldie:
Steve,
as I've already admitted my old grey cells are drifting and if I'm incorrect I'm quite happy to apologize, but I don't remember a miners strike 20 years ago,more like the 70's
oldie.

Are you being ironic?

If not ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/12/newsid_2540000/2540175.stm

What MichaelC said.

Posted on: 28 September 2004 by Mekon

I presume the other Brightonians have heard the rumours of a ruck later today? Not that I've heard anything but rumours, but a pro-hunt demo in Brighton? What were they thinking?

Posted on: 28 September 2004 by Roy T

I trust that you have done your civic duty and passed this information to MI5?

Posted on: 28 September 2004 by domfjbrown

quote:
Originally posted by JonR:
quote:
Originally posted by domfjbrown:
I'd pay money to see Blair blown up (have to be a very accurate missile though a la "Runaway", or someone important (ie a crone or a member of the public) might get hit by mistake.

I hope you are joking, Dom.

Did you see a smiley? I'd love to see his stupid grin wiped off his face. OK, maybe shooting or assassination IS too harsh, as it would involve having to put his wife and kids through hell, but certainly, I've no time for him and I make no bones about it. DO note, however, that I put "see" in there - ie, even if I was loaded, I'd not be into the hiring a hitman thing...

And yes, I did vote, before anyone asks. People who don't, and then moan, really get on my nerves.

I will say this; he's not as bad as Thatcher, but even she didn't deserve certain events in Brighton. That 1984 bombing was horrific, so perhaps I should have been a bit less forceful yesterday, but seriously, I've never trusted that muppet.

__________________________
Don't wanna be cremated or buried in a grave
Just dump me in a plastic bag and leave me on the pavement
A tribute to your modern world, your great society
I'm just another victim of your highrise fantasy!