Welcome to Fortress Brighton
Posted by: oldie on 26 September 2004
Having just returned from a Sunday afternoon trip out of town I have had my car and passengers videoed several times each way, whilst both leaving and returning to the town,all the main roads into and out of the city have Police video van units working 24 hours a day recording all traffic passing by them.
Several roads have been closed to the general public and barricaded, the main sea front road has been restricted from in places 3 lanes each way down to 1 lane each way, with a massive steel barrier down the center. There are more police armed with machine guns[ that are not suitable or accurate enough to be used in a area crowded with people]on the roof tops and patroling the streets around the sea front area than you would expect to see in Beirut. Van loads of coppers are being driven all over the city and hundreds if not a thousand or more plods are crawling all over the place, this is not to mention the bl--dy helicopters over head and the alleged warships patroling the sea lanes just of the coast. And why do the people of Brighton have to put up with being made prisoners in there own City? so that Blair and his circus can perform their staged and totaly controlled ritual before the worlds press. So much for our democracy and rights of freedom, you can't even move around in our own town without being eyed with suspicion by several gun toting black clad moronic looking coppers.
RANT OVER
Sorry, oldie.
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by matthewr
Rod,
Morally driving to Calais to buy a van full of booze and fags is identical to avoiding tax. You are deliberately depriving the state of money it intends to collect out of your own self-interest.
In practice, of course, the morals of the situation are rather incidental and what it really means is that there are now limits on the revenue that can be raised from excise duties and the government will increasingly have to look elsewhere to get that money.
Matthew
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by Berlin Fritz
Sorry Matt,. but that's absolute Bollocks IMDO, although I agree with you 100% on the tax avoidance vs's Benefit dodger scribe, the so-called Duty Free Lark²²²²²² only affects the British in Europe and has been the biggest CON³³ of all time for decades, as any true Publican will tell you, as you well know. Honesty gets yopu nowhere, and free enterprise doesn't either, Why buy a BM in UK when yer can get it here much chaeaper, and I mean today's ruiles not the old Squaddie rip-off bullshit, these agencies like the P.O. are missusing thre good name of H.M. as a seal of Briotish Approval I reckon, and the rest of Europe just looks on and larfs³ bigstyle, Tiop notch Malts here for instance apittance of what you pay WHY ?????? €€€€€€€€ NO EXCHANGE RATE THERE EITHER, I know it's not your own thinking, but it's unfortunately the poor Brits (I mean finacially Poor) who always get stung, and it's a bloody travesty, innit.
Back to me Sunday pudding, and Claret, and a larf over the Obituraraies in todays. F.Allgem--- Cheers, G.G. v. Don'tpushthebritishfolktoofartheyain'tyanks
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by matthewr
Fritz,
As ever I understood about 1% of what you said. It's not just the Brits though -- the Finns have the same problem with the Baltic States and getting pissed in Finland got significantly cheaper when Estonia, etc. joined the EU earlier this year.
Matthew
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by Steve Toy
quote:
Switch of the aircondoning in that taxi of yours,wind down the windows and let a bit of reality blow through or even just change shifts to see what happens during the Daytime and you might but it's a long shot I know see what is going on around you as you waft by, there is a whole world out there who's choice could well be to eat or take a taxi
oldie.
1) The air conditioning is fucked.
2) It is now autumn and I don't need it anyway.
3) In my job I get to meet a wide cross section of the community.
4) People on benefits are probably our best customers.
5) I start work late in the afternoon and therefore I do see some daylight!
6) My real world is one of today, yours is one of yesterday or even the day before that.
7) I'll say it again, by making the rich poorer the poor become poorer too. Wealth has to be created before it can be shared. Geese and golden eggs spring to mind...
Regards,
Steve.
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by Berlin Fritz
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
Fritz,
As ever I understood about 1% of what you said. It's not just the Brits though -- the Finns have the same problem with the Baltic States and getting pissed in Finland got significantly cheaper when Estonia, etc. joined the EU earlier this year.
Matthew
Sorry, absolutely no comparison, is this your fiver I've just picked up on the ground ? Oh all right then I'll keep it mate.
Cheers, G.G.v. Heath 75 ish I believe ?
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by Steve Toy
The rich are getting richer at a faster rate in our currently prosperous economy (still enjoying Kenneth Clarke's legacy) but the poor aren't getting poorer.
Regards,
Steve.
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by Mick P
Tom
Most of us are getting richer. We own more cars, electrical gadgets and take longer and better holidays than ever before. The standard of living is at an all time high.
To be honest, the poor should get off their ass's but I think we have been down that route before.
Whatever you think, if societies direction is making the poor poorer, then they had better get higher paid jobs etc etc.
My window cleaner will not clean my windows unless I pay him £20.00, so there are opportunities everywhere. They have just got to look.
Anyone want £15 to do my windows.......I hope you are taking my point.
Regards
Mick...believer than we should all be allowed to hang on to what we have got...low tax and low government expenditure = prudentcy
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by Steve Toy
Window cleaners charge about a fiver here for a detached house. They still earn though given that they can do the whole house in about ten minutes
Regards,
Steve.
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by Berlin Fritz
It usually takes very brave and courageous people to go agains't a system full of corruption & fear, the deaths at a certain British Army Junior Soldier's Barracks proves that point though the evidence will never be made public. In British society (as with most others too) people who grass or spy ´without due cause or reason on fellow Citizens and family are usually outcast, and classed as blacklegs and worse, and of course in times of emergency generally suffer fatal accidents (this is unfortunately my opinion of how I percieve things as they are, and not as they should be).
Might be an over-reaction, though the principle of getting kids to collect litter etc, etc, boy scout /girl guide-wise is ´fine and admirable, but to expect reporting of out of date car tax discs, etc, etc, etc, is bang out of order and unforgivable, not only for the kids future's but the society's psyche as a whole, besides who on earth will be available as future Civil Servants ?
Graham George Von Stasimentalitystillfestersonandonandoninnit²
N.B. I think this post does belong on this thread, and thank you again Sir Mathew for your kind answer at last to one of my queeries, it's indeed an honour yore worship, harder than an audience with John Paul you is, innit. Mick, what d'yer reckon Vigiallantee kids round Swindon way with digi-cams and on the spot fines ?
Cheers, talkin of Fins !!!
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by Mick P
Tom
More goods are being purchased in the high street than ever before, that is why interest rates are being increased in an attempt to dampen things down.
Overall the nation is wealthier than ever before.
I suppose the wealth is disproportionate in middle and upper England but at the end of the day that is fair enough because it is they who create the wealth in the first place.
I fulfill a useful role, because people like me make people like you feel good about themselves. You are nicer and more compassionate than me etc etc. You are nice and I am not. You are a decent human being and I am not.
I am unworthy to be allowed on the same planet as you.
Regards
Scumbag Mick
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by Mick P
Alex
Yes we are running up national debt levels but the good news is that the value of the assets exceeds the debt by about (I believe) 60%. There was an article on Business Lunch BBC2 a couple of months ago on this very subject.
Therefore everyone except Tom and his friends are having a jolly good time.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by Andrew L. Weekes
Mick,
It would be more appropriate to say that the assets exceed the debt at present.
Some people have short memories it seems, the only assets people have on debt that are more valuable are their properties.
Andy.
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by Mick P
Tom
I am trying to be nice but I am beginging to think that you are losing the plot.
I cannot cmment on your figures because I do not know where they came from.
I would agree that the gap between the richest of the rich and the poorest of the poor is widening.
However, my point is that the fortunes of middle england (Mr Average if you like) is at an all time high.
This is measured by the amount of consumable goods we buy and the value of properties.
We are using more white goods, I don't know anyone who dosen't have a mobile phone now a days, even my 6 year old granddaughter has one of the bloody things.
Record foreign holidays are being taken and 6 million Brits own second homes abroad.
We are much better off as a nation than ever before. There will always be the "don't haves" but in a lot of cases, it is their lack of energy that keeps them there.
Mrs Mick and I went to the Retail outlet in Swindon yesterday and it was jammed with shoppers, shopping till they dropped. Hardly the sign of an impoverished nation.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by long-time-dead
Tom
Living in Glasgow and appreciating the social decay that this (and no doubt EVERY major city) has, I would also consider myself very fortunate.
Reality checking over my shoulder........
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by long-time-dead
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
However, my point is that the fortunes of middle england (Mr Average if you like) is at an all time high.
.... I rest my case your honour.....
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by ErikL
Tom,
There will be a day when the sun shines on Mick just so and he realizes that his existence was a thorough waste and instead of collecting material objects he should have dedicated more know-how, time, and money to helping the less fortunate. I suspect his trip to India will at last open his eyes.
If not, at least he'll make good fertilizer.
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by Andrew L. Weekes
quote:
This is measured by the amount of consumable goods we buy and the value of properties.
Assuming. like most 'Mr. Average's', that they, unlike you, only have one property, how on earth does it's value (and the consequent, potentially unaffordable. debt that many are in because of it) increase their wealth? It's a stupid measure of prosperity.
The fact that my house is worth much more than what it was when I bought it doesn't make me richer, because I cannot realise the cash within it. In fact were I too move to a larger home it would make me less wealthy, but many cannot see this it seems. I would spend more now in purchase price and fees than I would if properties were cheaper, the differentials are greater at present.
People are spending too much because they have been lulled into a false sense of security because many of them seem to have forgotten what average interest rates are like.
I predict a LOT of burnt fingers to come.
Andy.
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by ErikL
Well, it'll be an easy transition then.
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by Mick P
Tom
The average wage is £24,200.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by MichaelC
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
The main difficulty with stopping avoidance is that much of the money goes abroad and whilst most sane people agree that it's wrong that News International basically pays trivial amounts of tax in the UK, the US and Australia where it makes all it's profits, I'm not sure anyone has actually got a realistic proposal for stopping this.
The IR have it in their power to investigate and effectively raise the tax assessments if the findings are in their favour but are limited a) in terms of man-power (this is not local office stuff) and b) if their political masters give them the go ahead.
Mike
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by Mick P
Tom A
According to you, the average wage is just below £30k which should denote a reasonable standard of living, espescially if 2 partners work.
The inescapble fact that you are ignoring is that shops are selling more goods today than ever before. That is prosperity.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by MichaelC
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
Rather like Leffer curves that show that tax yield doesn't neccesarily go up as you conrinue to raise tax rates, there is lots of evidence that totally flat, very simple schemes actually raise more money. There are very good arguments for basically tearing the lot down and starting again
Matthew
I suspect you do not realise how absolutely spot on your statement is.
It has been demonstrated in the past that a low tax environment gives rise to a greater tax yield. Why? Those who would have sought to evade declare their earnings and the high net worth/earners although highly mobile remain within the ambit of the tax system.
As for our current system of taxation it is so overly complicated even the special commissioners cannot agree amongst them what it all means. I defy anyone who has business interests, multiple sources of investment income, capital events etc etc to complete their Self Assessment accurately.
Mike
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by ErikL
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Mick...believer than we should all be allowed to hang on to what we have got...low tax and low government expenditure = prudentcy
Where would you stop at privatization?
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by MichaelC
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
In my experience people who split hairs about the difference beween "evasion" and "avoidance" to justify keeping money that should be going to the state are basically just greedy and, more often than not, cunts.
Matthew
Matthew
That is rather a strong statement - where do you draw the line?
I suspect many people here on this forum arrange their personal taxation affairs in the most beneficial manner. At the most basic level we could say that anyone who has taken advantage of PEPS/ISAS have avoided tax that they would have paid had they say kept their money in an ordinary savings account.
Or what about in business terms accelerating capital/revenue expenditure to an earlier accounting (taxation) period to effectively mitigate the tax bill.
Or what about investing in VCT's?
Or what about film partnerships?
These are all permissible within the eyes of tax law but consitute avoidance (which is entirely legal). Where do you draw your line?
Mike
Posted on: 03 October 2004 by long-time-dead
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
The inescapble fact that you are ignoring is that shops are selling more goods today than ever before. That is prosperity.
Nope. Just an increasing amount of credit card debt based on the equity held in property.
This was stated by the Bank of England last time they raised the mortgage rate. They wanted to raise the rate to slow the "housing boom" and limit the amount of accrued debt.
