DVD5

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Originally posted by HiDefBob:
Karyboue

I am very disappointed to hear your remarks about the CD sound quality of the DVD5. I was really hoping that the DVD5 would fill my need for a quality DVD player with quality CD sound. Would you still say that the CD quality ranks very high amoung the better DVD players.

On the plus side, when staff at my Naim dealer, here in Vancouver, hooked up the DVD5 they were all amazed at the huge improvement in picture quality over the unit that had been in place in the Naim room ... the Denon 3910.

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I have to wait a full week burn to have a better point of view, the unit had no more than 5-6 hours of run.
From what I heard, it is hard to say if the DVD5 is better than the CD5 or not, it is matter of preference. They are really different players in every way. I would like a CD5 with the space/brightness qualities of a DVD5 or a DVD5 with the material effect of a CD5.

One potential money situation cleared up today (contact ratification), so I am now in a position to purchase a DVD5. My Naim dealer has kept one for me.

So, time permiting I will go to the dealer on the weekend along with some DVD's and CD's to spend some time doing my own viewing and listening. If everthing is to my liking I will give him my credit card to swipe!

By the way, I would love to see the DVD5 feeding the new 70" Sony Qualia Q006! I saw one yesterday ... outstanding PQ ... with an outstanding price CA$17,000!

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Originally posted by karyboue:
BUT when we changed the digital output in the DVD5 menu from "multicanal" to "stereo" (section 7.7.1 in the manual), it happens that the AV2 does a very good PCM decoding job and trully no difference could be heard.

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Hi karybone

Did you also switch the AV2 into direct mode when doing this analogue/digital comparison?

Running the DVD5 through it's analogue outputs into the AV2 with it set as "direct" should be significantly better than the digital route....

Jay

Has anyone compare the following connection for movie sound?

1)DVD5 with multichannel analogue output card to AV2 multichannel analogue input? (less jitter)

2)DVD5 digital output to AV2 digital input? (more jitter)

Basically, we are comparing the decoding capability and the jitter issue between DVD5 and AV2? I am also wondering the mutichannel analogue output card in the DVD5 will affect the picture and/or sound quality of DVD5 or not!

Thanks

David

A DVD player used with a HC processor has to be set to "multichannel" to play DVDs, and the DVD5, logically, by default, has its digital output set to "multichannel".
So, when we compare the digital and the analog we usually leave the digital output to "multichannel". In that case, the difference on the DVD5 is huge, the analog output is far far better.

At home, using the AV2 as a decoder when playing CDs with my DVD player I really can't hear any difference when the DVD player is set to "multichannel" or "stereo". BUT with the DVD5, when the digital output is set to "stereo" instead of "multichannel" the difference is really enormous. That means, to me, that Naim has made a very good job on the CD decoding/replaying.

Now, in everyday use, if you want to connect the DVD5 to a HC processor only using a coax cable to play DVDs and CDs, forget it. Each time you swap a DVD for a CD, you have to turn on the projector or TV to change the setting of the digital output to "stereo" instead of "multichannel". That is really not practical at all and happily the analog output is equivalent to the digital "stereo" (and I hope it will better with burning days)


All that doesn't surprise me because a few month ago I compared my CD5 to the AV2 decoding. I decided to sell the CD5, the gap was not important enough to keep it and I needed to save money to buy a futur DVD5


If one over here has a DVD5, can he set the digital output to "stereo" instead of "multichannel" and confirm that difference of sound playing CDs.

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Originally posted by David Young:
Has anyone compare the following connection for movie sound?

1)DVD5 with multichannel analogue output card to AV2 multichannel analogue input? (less jitter)

2)DVD5 digital output to AV2 digital input? (more jitter)

Basically, we are comparing the decoding capability and the jitter issue between DVD5 and AV2? I am also wondering the mutichannel analogue output card in the DVD5 will affect the picture and/or sound quality of DVD5 or not!

Thanks

David

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That's interesting, that means we use the DVD5 inboard decoding.
I should remember to try that on thursday.

Sorry to carry on karybone (sounds like the name of a movie!) but....

....have you tried the analogue output of the DVD5 into the analogue input of the AV2 (set in DIRECT mode)? The direct mode in the AV2 shuts down all the processing.

To me it sounds like you are sending digital signals (stereo or multi) to the AV2 and letting it do the processing.

Jay

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Originally posted by Jay:
Sorry to carry on karybone (sounds like the name of a movie!) but....

....have you tried the analogue output of the DVD5 into the analogue input of the AV2 (set in DIRECT mode)? The direct mode in the AV2 shuts down all the processing.

To me it sounds like you are sending digital signals (stereo or multi) to the AV2 and letting it do the processing.

Jay

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We listened to 3 different outputs :
DVD5 digital output set in "multichannel" > AV2 in "stereo" mode
DVD5 digital output set in "stereo" > AV2 in "stereo" mode
DVD5 analog ouptut > AV2 in "direct" mode.

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Originally posted by karyboue:
We listened to 3 different outputs :
1.DVD5 digital output set in "multichannel" > AV2 in "stereo" mode
2. DVD5 digital output set in "stereo" > AV2 in "stereo" mode
3. DVD5 analog ouptut > AV2 in "direct" mode.

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Cheers for clearing that up karyboue

So, let me get this straight...you noticed no difference between 2. and 3? (sorry I slightly amended your quote because it was easier for me).

Jay

Oh and apologies for mis-spelling your name earlier

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Originally posted by Jay:
Oh and apologies for mis-spelling your name earlier

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No problem

yes 2 and 3 are equivalent, with the dealer we couldn't hear any difference but they are much much better than 1. 3 being better than 1 is I would say normal from Naim but 2 also being so much better than 1 is more unusual on a DVD player.

3 and 2 are good but lack of consistency. Because the DVD5 was very new I hope that after a certain burning time 3 will better.

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Originally posted by karyboue:
3 and 2 are good but lack of consistency. Because the DVD5 was very new I hope that after a certain burning time 3 will better.

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Do post back your findings this coming week.

You will guess that I'm quite surprised that you couldn't hear a significant difference through the AV2's direct mode. As I said, my Philips 963SA was significantly better when played in this way. I think you could reasonably expect the DVD5 to perform the same way, if not markedly better in analogue.

Jay

Jay, Karyboue,
I dont think it is exactly fair to try and use the AV2 as a 'pre amp' in this way, after all, it was designed to be a first class (world class!?) de-coding engine as oposed to being a pre.
Taking the analogue outputs directly from the DVD5 via rca's or 5 pin din to a dedicated pre amp input on say a 252 (for arguments sake) would I am certain show the real difference between the cd replay of the dvd5 versus the decoding of digital input on the av2 to analogue stereo.

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Originally posted by Steve2701:
Jay, Karyboue,
I dont think it is exactly fair to try and use the AV2 as a 'pre amp' in this way, after all, it was designed to be a first class (world class!?) de-coding engine as oposed to being a pre.
Taking the analogue outputs directly from the DVD5 via rca's or 5 pin din to a dedicated pre amp input on say a 252 (for arguments sake) would I am certain show the real difference between the cd replay of the dvd5 versus the decoding of digital input on the av2 to analogue stereo.

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Steve

With all due respect, that's bloody nonsense.

Not fair!?

The AV2 is the best sounding HT processor I've heard. It's definitely the only one I've ever actually heard music from.

If you have an AV2, can I suggest that you try it with your own DVD player. If I can clearly hear the difference with my lowly Philips DVD I'm pretty sure any talent the DVD5 might possess will shine through.....you won't need a 252.

Jay

edit...re-read my post and it may appear that I'm annoyed, not so.

I couldn't miss how so different were an "old" burned CD5 and a brand new DVD5 (on analog output) on the AV2. I guess that on a 252 it would have been just more obvious.

Jay,
No offence taken, it is my view though. There is talk of comparing the cd playing ability of the DVD5 versus the CD5, & I dont think the best way to compare them is via an AV2, on direct mode or not! Lets face it, if you went to compare a CD3 against .. say a CDX2, would you be happy to do so via an AV2 (on 'direct' mode) as a preamp?
I couldnt agree more with you on two points.. that the AV2 produces AMAZING music given appropriate signals.. the new Peter Gabriel DVD 'Play' has been transfered to 5.1 DTS in excellent form, and to my ears makes stunning music.
I would also agree that there should be a difference on the AV2s output between 'direct' & 'stereo'.. I still wonder what has occured there.. even taking warm up time into account.

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Originally posted by Steve2701:
Jay,
No offence taken, it is my view though. There is talk of comparing the cd playing ability of the DVD5 versus the CD5, & I dont think the best way to compare them is via an AV2, on direct mode or not!

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Thx Steve! I see where you're coming from now. Yes, ultimately a more revealing pre will give better insight.

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Lets face it, if you went to compare a CD3 against .. say a CDX2, would you be happy to do so via an AV2 (on 'direct' mode) as a preamp?

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Well personally I would. You should be able to get the general gist of what's going on (and what's not) between those two with a Nait5i. Now the DVD5 vs CD5 might be a different story....

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I couldnt agree more with you on two points.. that the AV2 produces AMAZING music given appropriate signals.. the new Peter Gabriel DVD 'Play' has been transfered to 5.1 DTS in excellent form, and to my ears makes stunning music.

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I don't have that but I have the recent concert footage - UP. Absolutely fantastic!

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I would also agree that there should be a difference on the AV2s output between 'direct' & 'stereo'.. I still wonder what has occured there.. even taking warm up time into account.

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Yeah, a little strange. But then karyboue's done the dem and not us!

Best. Jay

I couldn't test again the DVD5 last thursday. It should be done by the end of next week.

I have seen my dealer today who told me that playing CDs it has much bettered with a more material effect.


I will also "test" the BNC RGB/HV output. But instead of having my top VGA>VGA cable modified to 5 BNC > VGA I bought a very cheap 5 BNC > DB15 cable. I'll check by myself if it really doesn't outputs any RGB/HV signal with macrovision DVDs.
The DVD5 is also said to be compatible with VGA screens. I'll check what that VGA compatibility really means with a recorded DVD+RW, I suppose that it downscales to 640*480, but we have no informations about it. I am really interested in that possibility because my TV is wideVGA/SVGA and 576p RGB/HV only compatible.

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Originally posted by karyboue:

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Originally posted by Jay:
I thought you could turn all the digital stuff off if you were using the DVD5 as a CD player? Is that the case?

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That's also what I thought but all we founded is digital ouput set to multicanal or stereo. We have been looking for that "all digital off while playing CD" function. Where is it in the DVD5 menu ?

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Sorry - I had to ask too.
For DVDA & CD disc the video outputs may be switched off during play.

Either by playing one of these discs with the front panel display switched off.
Or while playing one of these discs - press and hold the disp button.
To reinstate the video outputs - press the disp button once. Further presses of the disp button operate normally, i.e. cycle through the front panel display options.

Ah...see. Thx Adam.

Assume you are talking about the DVD5's display? When you've got the DVD5 and the AV2 "linked" does the disp button turn the displays off both units?

Jay

I spent about 3 hours on Saturday evaluating the DVD5 at my local Naim dealer.

1. First the DVD5 on an all Naim system ... CD's only
- I was blown away by the sound.
- I heard details on my CD's that I had never heard before.
- One CD in particular ... Fleetwood Mac "The Dance" sounded absolutely amazing!
- It was a close to being at the performance as a music system has ever taken me.
- I really gained a sense as to why Naim owners are so patitionate about there sound systems

2. Second the DVD5 with a Classé processor ($12,000 SSP-600) and Classé amplifier with B&W Nautilis 800 speakers ... again CD's only
- WOW what a difference ... it was like I was listening to different CD's
- the dealer explained that Naim and Classé are polar opposites when it comes to processing music ... Naim is totally unforgiving ... it reproduces exactly what is on the CD, while Classé is designed to be more forgiving.
- for many Classé may be easier to listen to ... possibly less fatiguing. But for me Classé goes too far. It left me wanting more. It was like part of the music was left behind.

3. Third, it was back on the all Naim system evaluating DVD's only using a Knoll projector (I believe it was the CA$6000 model) with a 6 foot screen.
- so we have one of the best DVD player with a high quality video projector
- I guess I have been watching too many movies lately in HDTV, because for the most part I found the resultant image unacceptable.
- while close-ups were fairly good, scenic shots were terrible ... a fussy mess.
- colors lacked the purity and intensity of HDTV ... in many cases washed out
- on my Sony KV36XBR400 DVD's look fairly good, but I am afraid once I get a larger screen whatever the quality of that screen or DVD player, the images from regular DVD's are not going to be acceptable. To go to a larger screen means going to Blu-Ray or HD DVD.

Follow-up - My Home Theatre dealer wants to loan me a DVD5 for the weekend to see and hear it on my system. He thinks once I have done that I will not want to be without it. So, next weekend I hope to take him up on his offer.

Question for owners - can you output a 480i signal via the DVI output?