New car choices?

Dev - can you advise whether residual value is important here and lead time?
For example, the X5 3.0D is on a minimum 12 month's lead time...

Hi there - I'm not that worried about resids and lead times (I think I can get th X5 in 6 mths)

regards

Well Dev, if you can get an X5 in 6 months then I know one guy who'd love to know where from !

Back to your choices: I'd personally give the X3 a miss as it's small with essentially an outdated interior and expensive for what it is. I didn't think the build quality was quite up to BMW standard when I drove one IMO. The X5 is by far the best choice if you want a Beemer 4 x 4.
All your choices will deliver good fuel economy give or take a few miles per gallon so I guess it's down to other factors for your decision.
I like the revamped Jag and the engine's a cracker: very refined and the ride/handling is a good compromise between the softness associated with a Merc and the firmness of a Beemer.The interior IMO feels a little "cheap" and leans towards the more traditional of aesthetic design though they are now available without so much wood if this is your taste.
I personally don't like the styling of the new 5 series but it's probably the best all rounder on your list for space, refinement, perfomance and image.I'd go for the 3.0 model: it's a more exhilarating drive.
Others you could consider are the new A6 which is reportedly excellent though I haven't driven or been in one. Then there's the Volvo XC90,(thirsty though even in Diesel form)and the VW Touareg,(expensive but has the rarity factor).
Any other considerations to note?

Try a Lexus RX 300 & IS 300.
I'm hooked on Lexus because of the aftersales service. They gave me a complimentary bottle of red wine the other day for no reason at all. It isn't cheap plonk either!
They just can't do enough for you and other dealers just seem to be just box shifters in comparison. The cars are fab too! Try it.

Hallo Dev,

the new twin turbo diesel is rolling-out as the 535d now or in near future.

X5 is great, handling/refinement good but quite wide.
X3 doesn't do a lot for me personally.
New 3-series saloon on sale next summer.

If you try a 5 series, the one essential is the semi-active suspension(dynamic drive).

Possible alternative: Audi All-Road.

My choice would be a 530d Touring. Space/pace/economy/refined/rewarding.

regards,

Brian

Dev
I’ve had a drive in the Jag and the overriding thought was “smooth”. Silky, controlled drive and quiet powerful engine, though it seemed noticeably less urgent than the 530d. I can’t recall what the spec was, but it looked like my granny’s Welsh dresser inside so I’m guessing not the sport. The interior was very sumptuous but not to my taste and it was quite cramped in the back and the boot. I also find it hard to suppress niggling doubts over Jag’s reliability.

The X5 is a fine drive considering it’s girth. TBH I just don’t get the 4x4 thing. High sight line aside, for everyday non-rural usage, I fail to see the attraction or any benefit of the X5 over the 5. Seem to be driven badly and/or at inappropriately high speeds by Tony Soprano wannabees and their Barbie doll, wives on school runs. Twits basically. All of the above applies to the X3 only with a lamentably shoddy interior build, dodgy exterior styling, stupidly firm ride and crazy prices. All IMO.

I kind of agree with you on the Merc, not very sharp on A roads, bit boat like, but fantastic on long motorways. I’ve only brief experience with the 320CDi wagon and was very impressed but the owner commented that the dealer experience had been shockingly bad.

I haven’t driven the 525d but by all accounts it isn’t hugely short of the 530d in performance, so it depends on your usage and how you drive. Having happily driven E39s for a number of years I have to say that I find the interior of the E60 a bit naff and cheap for a car at this level and I also can’t help wincing at that awful boot line. That said I’ve driven the E60 530d on numerous occasions and have to say dynamically it’s easily ahead of your other choices, fantastic engine, loads of room fore and aft and a cavernous boot. If they sorted out my gripes above, well at least the interior, I’d almost certainly put the order in for a 530d.

I’ve had two test drives of the new A6 and I have to say that, against all expectation, I was very impressed. I drove the old A6 about 6 years ago and whilst the interior was as good as the BMW, I thought the drive very dull and lumpy, typically Audi of old. This new car is planted on the road, firm but comfortable ride, smooth punchy diesel engine, quiet and corners almost as well as the 530d. Compared to the E60, there’s not as much steering feedback through fast, twisty stuff where the kids would be chucking up, but otherwise this car is a bloody revelation. The interior seems to be almost a range step up from the E60, as good if not better than the E39. The cabin and the boot are also huge and comfortable. And it looks great in the flesh.

Right now, if someone put a gun to my head and forced me to choose, (the 535d not being in the frame) I’d think I might just cross the house and go for the A6 over the E60. At the very least, I’d certainly recommend a test drive of the A6 3.0tdi and if that doesn’t do anything for you then definitely the 530d.

Why would someone in London want a bloody 4 x 4?

The Audi A6 3.0 TDI looks the business.

Regards,

Steve.

"Why would someone in London want a bloody 4 x 4?

Regards,

Steve."

I thought it would be obvious Steve:

A/they help drivers get over the kerbs so they can drive down footpaths because the roads are too congested.

B/Parking in London is a similar experience to Paris, i.e you park bumper to bumper and nudge the cars out of the way to make a space. 4 x4's are perfect for this task whilst being so heavy that other drivers can't reciprocate.

C/The wheels are too big to enable successful clamping.

D/Primrose Hill has quite a nasty ascent/descent.

E/Traffic wardens can't reach the windscreens to attach parking tickets.

I've had a go in an S Type 2.7d and on balance agree with the motoring press. It's the top dog. Not outstanding at anything but very good across the board. The only other car on your list I've driven is the 530d, which I had on loan for a day (regular car is an old shape 528). Dynamically brilliant. Refined and easy to drive long distances. But the interior build quality is pants and the ergonomics are a complete disaster. Then there's the iDrive. Easy enough to use and master but why? Takes about 10 sec to adjust the air temperature of the centre face vents, and finding a radio station (unless you've already pre set it) is just an accident in the making, so distracting is this stupid gadget.

Another fully loaded E39 next time, 540 Touring for choise, then bye bye BMW. The E60, good drive though it is, just hasn't got what it takes in my book.

I don't know anything about the X Series. I'm not a big fan of Tonka Toys.

Have fun.

Cheers

Harry

Thanks to you all for your replies - I appreciate your experiences - I'm going to arrange some weekend tests & will report back. Another car I'm going to throw into the mix is the Touareg (and the Audi's) - that V10 diesel sound mad. But I think the front runners (based totally on prejuduce, experiences, etc) for me are:

530d - Is the Sport version too jittery - Brian?
525d - Is it massively slower
X5 3.0d
Jag 2.7D
Any Audi Quattro (preferably a TDi of some sort
Touareg (while I like Porkers, the Cayenne price wise is taking the piss a little)

thanks again & I'll report back.

Dev

ps. jlfrs - spot on about primrose hill : prime X5 country

The sports suspension works brilliantly when you're on the open road above 50mph. Any other set up feels soggy. It's very comfortable and 'just so' but it will crash about in the urban jungle. I had an E46 with sports suspension. If you drove over a coin you knew if it was heads or tails. Apart from anything else, the E39 Spotrs set up just looks so damn fine. Haven't seen an E60 Sport yet.

Cheers

Harry

Leftfield suggestion: IMveryHO the Volvo V70 has to be one of the most underrated cars around. Exceptionally well built, supreme comfort, fantastic ergonomics, decent fuel economy and torque from the 2.4D, stupendous performance from the petrol turbos, tons of space, tends not to attract undue attention (unless it's a white one).....and great value if your car scheme's the one I'm guessing. Just won't impress the friends as much.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rana Ali:
Leftfield suggestion: IMveryHO the Volvo V70 has to be one of the most underrated cars around. Exceptionally well built, supreme comfort, fantastic ergonomics, decent fuel economy and torque from the 2.4D, stupendous performance from the petrol turbos, tons of space, tends not to attract undue attention (unless it's a white one).....and great value if your car scheme's the one I'm guessing. Just won't impress the friends as much.

---

Thanks for that Rana, I'll add the Volvo to the list.

ps. how did you know about the scheme?

"ps. how did you know about the scheme?"

I'll be joining it in December.



Rana

What is "The Scheme"?

As Homer would say this is "Weird, strange, sick, twisted, eerie, godless, evil stuff! And I want in."

Dev

I've been mightily impressed by my 530d Touring
I've had it about 2.5 years now so its the old model and I can't fault it. A bit more space in the back on occasion would be useful

I particularly wanted the old model as I was not impressed with the new 5 saloon's interior and the idrive thing was a bit of a worry

If you can wait a few months the twin turbo 535d is about to hit the street but you really do not need the extra power.

You will notice the diesel noise a little around town but its not an unpleasant noise. On the road the general tyre /wind noise totally drowns the diesel and the whole ambience is very hush. Just needs a better amp and a set of serious speakers but I can't quite risk getting a hairy Sextons technician to mess about with all those airbag gizmos so have left well alone.

Have tried Merc Tourers and they make quite nice boats

eddie

Dev

Didn’t you get your last car about 2 years ago?
Here’s my 2p worth.
4 x 4s and fuel economy seem to be an oxymoron as with 4 x 4s and London as Steven Toy and Red Ken make clear. They are also more expensive and don’t drive as well as ordinary cars.
Families take up loads of luggage so estates are more practical than saloons.
How much money would you save on fuel overall buying a diesel over an equivalent powered petrol (how many non-business miles do do a year) ?, because even BMW diesels can’t be nicer than their petrols and from what I can see the 525i performs much the same as the 530d and is £4000 cheaper – (although much the same tax if a company car).
Have not test driven the new 5 series but I have driven a Volvo V70, which was nothing like the old 5 series touring. So the 525i se touring gets my vote for your next car, but I am undecided on what colour you need.

CNC

"I'm not that worried about resids and lead times"
Why not?
Doesn’t it matter to you if it lost all its value in 2 minutes and took 4 years to get one?
There are some strange rationales here!
Martin

Dev,
Middle age is setting in early with you! Sports saloon to exective barge to Hampstead tractor, what are you thinking mate? Get yourself a Porsche 997 and put the wife and kids on the bus, you know it makes sense.
John

CNC

I would guess the 530D would have far more turbo generated torque for real life driving than than the 525 petrol. The previous series 525 (manual) I drove was suffering from a real lack of low down torque compared to the turboboosted-diesel. Lovely and smooth though.

V70 doesn't compare in the steering/handling stakes, but makes for a real load accomodating distance cruiser. 2005MY has all new suspension, so ought to be improved will report back in 2 weeks when I test drive 5-pot diesel auto.

Cheers

Rana

Martin D:

posted Sat 06 November 04 23:57
"Doesn’t it matter to you if it lost all its value in 2 minutes and took 4 years to get one?
There are some strange rationales here!"


I imagine this vehicle will not be bought but on a PCH or PCP scheme,(clarification please), in which case, residual value isn't so important but it'll still affect the monthly charge.

quote:

---

Originally posted by John Channing:
...to Hampstead tractor, what are you thinking mate?

---

Dev's thinking of one of these. Should go down well in da Finchley 'hood.

duncan

Email: djcritchley at hotmail.com

In the light of Rana Ali and John Channing’s comments and my overall dislike for diesel use in crowded areas, I am now decided on the colour and make –
Colour - Green,
Make and Model Toyota Prius,
and then you have to get Mr. Channing to sort you out with your Porsche as a weekend run-around.
So you can have both the fuel economy and the sporty handling that you desire

CNC

Dear Mr CNC - I think I like you!

Need I say more?