Why do Naim maintain this Forum?

It's true Patrick. It must be good to have a goldfish bowl where your customers talk about your products and service, and you just look in to see how you are doing.
The other side is that some of us meet up and listen to each others systems, which is always cause of upgraditis. I heard Oldie's system a couple of weeks ago and it was the first time I've sat & listened to an active system with a 52 pre. I've heard stuff at the dealer, but its not the same as someones system, with beer & food & good company. So we promote their products and do free demos too I suppose!
I would have trouble buying a non-Naim product now just because of the backup here by all you lot - free advice and opinion. I wouldn't just want an anonomous manufactured "product" anymore.

I'm not sure the forum's continued existence needs a reason. Since it both exists and remains popular it seems to me more a question of whether or not there are compelling reasons to close it, existence being its default state.

Hi Mike

Good question. Naim have an understandably ambivalent attitude to the forum. It can cause them more problems than it solves. It also presents dealers with all sorts of daft questions.

However; I e-mailed Naim recently with evidence of its efficacy.

A fellow European forum member popped up, asking for advice re spending a substantial amount of money on a much upgraded Naim system.

I believe that the positive and helpful response of forum members gave him the confidence to commit to a substantial expenditure on Naim kit. The forum also smacks of a commited and enthusiastic Hi-Fi company.

The bottom line is that Naim made a big sale, and the forum played a substantial part in the buyer's decision.

quote:

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Originally posted by J.N.:
_Hi Mike_

The bottom line is that Naim made a big sale, and the forum played a substantial part in the buyer's decision.

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I agree with your analysis J.N., as I have discussed this with 2 of the 3 "top banana's" at Naim several times at shows. They do have a good attitude towards taking the good with the bad, which is essential if you are going to sanction this sort of thing. They also have a keen sense of who's who in the group, and have written quite a few members off as complete wanksters. Apparently, there are a number of members who have taken the opportunity to exploit the idea that they are on a "first name basis" with Naim, and send countless emails directly to the HQ assuming that they have earned a higher rank from a high forum post count.

I would guess, taken in the right spirit, it's a good way to start the day (with a good laugh).

We are still convinced that this forum is a positive part of our company.
Honesty, openess and integrity have always been the back bone of the Naim brand principles. This has always been reflected in our products and all our relationships with the industry and our customers.
Passion about music and the importance hifi plays in our lives gives us a common link with almost everyone on this forum.

The visibilty and close contact our customers can gain via this forum to our company is invaluable.
The availabilty in every corner of the world to the latest info and help is something we could only dream about years ago. The web has changed all this, in a positive way.
There are some people who are jealous of this community or have ego problems and therefore can be a negative effect here but time always sees these people move on.

The Naim company is growing we are becoming stronger every year.Our products get better all the time!! and our commitment to extraordinary customer service has never been higher than it is today. Somedays we fail but we always keep trying!!

Exuse the rant, it is the padded cell after all!!

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE DEALERS?

I agree with Paul's comments. Myself, a Brit now living in South Africa, the contact I have with UK dealers and other forum members in invaluable.

However, it is very interesting that Naim remain so positive about the forum. The reason I say this is because I believe the forum is, at times, hugely resented by many Naim dealers.

I was told by one UK dealer that when many dealers (UK based and overseas) met at Naim HQ a couple of years back(?) there was one thing they all agreed on...

PULL THE PLUG ON THE FORUM.

Interesting. I hope they don't get their way.

Cheers,
Bruce

I would have thought it was for the staff to have a good laugh once in a while - what with all the arguments that so very often plummet out of control...

Because they want to know the truth about what is going on in Israel.

Arye

quote:

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I was told by one UK dealer that when many dealers (UK based and overseas) met at Naim HQ a couple of years back(?) there was one thing they all agreed on...

PULL THE PLUG ON THE FORUM.

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From a dealer perspective, just what could be the rationale for closing the forum? It generates loads of business opportunities for them and if they can't handle the occasional challenges it throws up, maybe they should be in a different business (one that doesn't involve customers!)

David

Chaps

I think this forum is the best thing since sliced bread from the point of view of Naim, the dealers and customers alike.

It is akin to a Naim owners club and it covers everything and everyone, whether they use the old silver edged kit or that of the latest spec.

Also the dealers can use it to their advantage, they really get to know what most customers think about the kit and how it compares to the opposition. They will also get first hand knowledge of what customers want and expect and more importantly, what they do not want.

Most dealers have to put up with the professional dealer visitor who calls in every saturday and it is easy for them to fall into the trap of thinking that they represent what the rest of us want. The forum connects them with us and information transfer is what keeps the wheels turning.

This forum also allows Naim to guage what importance we attach to the peripherals such as dedicated spurs and tweaking etc. Put all this together and it is an excellent marketing tool.

The only downside is that passions can sometimes run high and convoluted arguments can result. The caveat is that passions only run high because people care about the subject and that is no bad thing.

Speaking for myself, I first bought a second hand 32.5 / 140 about ten years ago and found the forum a couple of years later. The knowledge that I gleaned from the forum was fantastic and yes it encouraged me to upgrade and I am glad that it did. Listening to my hifi is one of lifes greatest joys. When I was working in a highly stressed job, it was the music that kept me sane.

The forum sometimes produces great characters such as Vuk. He could analyse problems and come up with solutions like no other. He gave out tremendous advice on isolation and I used his "Vukwich" to great advantage before upgrading to a professionally made rack. I am sure that it was him attaching such importance to isolation that made Naim produce the Fraim.

I think that there will always be a need for the forum as new people come along and take over from the old, it is a living thing after all.

Sometimes you can have too much of a good thing and I am taking a break for a month or two (bar the odd posting such as this) and hopefully this will freshen me up and I can come back as a more useful member.

Vive la le forum

Regards

Mick

i can post a message here and be guaranteed a high quality and useful responses within a very short space of time -- quite often from naim audio staff.

this is very different to my experience with another hifi forum that i sometimes post on. we do get spoiled to expect the same high quality service from every supplier we deal with -- unfortunately such good service is quite rare.

i believe naim audio can definitely survive without the forum. on the other hand, the naim forum is by and large a very happy community of people who share broadly similar tastes and are willing to help each other (look at some of the issues discussed in padded cell!!!). it has turnd to be a golden marketing litmus for naim audio. we would all lose if it went.

enjoy

ken

Mick,

I thought you'd left becaue the place was full of commies and inveterate tinkerers?

Matthew

Good to see you still lurking in the ether, Mick.

Re this post, why not have a place where people can help others with Naim kit and some of the issues that arise. I for one learned about spurs and also lots of great music because of this forum. Also, people seem to be more balanced and tolerant on here than some other forums I could mention.

Because of my job I get gobbed off at at work so I don't need it when relaxing surfing forums...

Thats not to sa y i don't like a balaced debate - there is nothing better IMO and there have been many on this forum.

To pull the plug on it would be just plain daft.

andy c!

I forum therefore I am?

I drink therefor I am.

Regards

Mike

Spending money I don't have on things I don't need.

"I am sure that it was him attaching such importance to isolation that made Naim produce the Fraim."

Not a chance in a million years Mick, it all goes way back when..................

Ok I stand corrected. I liked Vuk, I know he threatened to take out a contract on the odd awkward toe rag. I can actually relate with that.

I miss the bugger.


Regards

Mick

Balls!!

There is a remarkable similarity, IMHO, between Vuk's ball bearing rolling in a nut (I'm sure there's a pun in there somewhere) and the system that supports the glass shelves in a Fraim.....even if it is only a very tiny part of the overall product and a pure coincidence......but what do I know about these things....

...and exactly WHY did the dealers want Naim to close the Forum???? Knowledge = power ????

Cheers

Don

Welcome back Mick!

AQD

quote:

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There is a remarkable similarity, IMHO, between Vuk's ball bearing rolling in a nut (I'm sure there's a pun in there somewhere) and the system that supports the glass shelves in a Fraim.....even if it is only a very tiny part of the overall product and a pure coincidence......but what do I know about these things....

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FWIW, JV used captured ball bearings underneath BASE platforms years before they were mentioned here by anyone. Chris Koster did as well with a captured-bearing arrangement supporting a sheet of glass atop the AF Rack (foregoing the BASE platform altogether)...and Sound Anchors used them over 10 years ago with their custom stands as part of the stand-to-speaker interface for large, floor mounted speakers such as the Linn DMS Isobariks. In other words, ball-bearing interfaces are nothing new in hifi.

Regardless, there was only one Vuk and that's reason enough to remember him. This place is less without him.

regards,

dave

The time says it all...

Mick,

I had a lot of respect for you when you resigned from the forum. You went out all guns firing to the 1812 Overture, but now that you have come back, you have lost that special place in my heart.

By the way, all this crap about Vuk designing some sort of pre-Fraim ball bearing 3-point isolation method is a load of bollocks. Ball bearing 3-point isloation has been around for decades in Astronomy, Microflown sound measuring and in fact any lab measuring in microns or viewing via high powered microscopes.

Vuk designed it! Jesus Christ.

I never said Vuk designed the Fraim, what I mean't was that Vuk spent months perfecting his home made rack and isolation platform and then eventually converted to Mana.

His conversion unquestionably did Mana a lot of good and I still suspect that it was this that motivated Naim to produce the Fraim.

You will only find me in this particular thread, no others and I have set myself a target of not coming back until September at the earliest. I must admit I enjoy the laid back element of lurking.

I still think that me and a few others have been around for far too long and we are becoming very predictable in what we say. Hence an absence for a few months or a bit of fresh blood from newbies does the forum a favour.

Regards

Mick

Hi Mick,
I was brought up to understand that everyone has a right to voice a balanced opinion, but if they voice that opinion then it can be replied to, but also in a balanced way.

I suspect you enjoy being 'to the point' and get some pleasure at seeing how others cope with that

Whether you choose to post elsewhere is up to you. I think that if you have something constructive to say then why not say it?

Just because you may wind up others who do not share and agree with your point of view, so what?

andy c!

I never wanted Mick to resign, I just thought the way he did it and stuck to his word was typical of the great man. Now that he has come back, I don't know how to value his word.

I'm not sure I will ever be the same again.