Ideas for a first PC for a Silver Surfer please.
Posted by: Chunny Nochubb on 09 December 2004
Christmas is coming, the goose is getting fat, time to put a PC on the old man’s desk.
The “man” is my dad, who as chance would have it is older than me hence the use of “old” and we thought of getting him a basic PC, for Xmas.
Basic means cheap but reliable, I expect that eventually he will be able to use it for basic word processing, emailing and surfing.
He does not have a great deal of desk space so the question is laptop or small desktop, and which works out cheaper? For ease of use, I think it best for him to have a standard keyboard and mouse, which would have to be additionally purchased if we chose a laptop.
I cannot find Matthew R. Obinson’s posting about small box desktops from a couple of month’s back because I think these might fit the bill, I have also seen some “all-in-one” pcs, which look very compact but costly.
Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
CNC
The “man” is my dad, who as chance would have it is older than me hence the use of “old” and we thought of getting him a basic PC, for Xmas.
Basic means cheap but reliable, I expect that eventually he will be able to use it for basic word processing, emailing and surfing.
He does not have a great deal of desk space so the question is laptop or small desktop, and which works out cheaper? For ease of use, I think it best for him to have a standard keyboard and mouse, which would have to be additionally purchased if we chose a laptop.
I cannot find Matthew R. Obinson’s posting about small box desktops from a couple of month’s back because I think these might fit the bill, I have also seen some “all-in-one” pcs, which look very compact but costly.
Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
CNC
Posted on: 09 December 2004 by seagull
Can't help with recommendations but...
Definitely get a proper keyboard and pointing device (there are alternatives to mice). Laptops are horrible to use for frequent users let alone someone unfamiliar with the beasts. The keyboards are small and fiddly and those little joysticks or those touch pads take a lot of getting used to.
A 'desktop' would be cheaper than an equivalent laptop. The footprint of the main box often isn't an issue as it can be placed on the floor. You won't need too much processing power for those applications and you won't be needing any expansion so you should be able to find one in a fairly small box.
Get a flat screen display - they are becoming much cheaper these days.
You would probably need a printer too? Remember, they take up a lot of space too.
Definitely get a proper keyboard and pointing device (there are alternatives to mice). Laptops are horrible to use for frequent users let alone someone unfamiliar with the beasts. The keyboards are small and fiddly and those little joysticks or those touch pads take a lot of getting used to.
A 'desktop' would be cheaper than an equivalent laptop. The footprint of the main box often isn't an issue as it can be placed on the floor. You won't need too much processing power for those applications and you won't be needing any expansion so you should be able to find one in a fairly small box.
Get a flat screen display - they are becoming much cheaper these days.
You would probably need a printer too? Remember, they take up a lot of space too.
Posted on: 09 December 2004 by Roy T
I would go along with the flat screen plus a full sized wireless keyboard and mouse so that he may move both the keyboard and mouse about the desktop or his lap so as to find the most comfortable typing position. Comfort and ease of use become top of the list when a Silver Surfer surfs.
Posted on: 09 December 2004 by seagull
I forgot about the wireless bit.
I originally had a wireless mouse on my pc until I got broadband. I installed Zone Alarm and started getting all sorts of problems with the PC just locking up. I eventually found the answer in the FAQ section of their web-site that the cordless mouse somehow interfered with zone alarm and vice versa giving the results I saw. Why?How? dunno they just did!
I changed back to a corded mouse and have had no problems since.
I originally had a wireless mouse on my pc until I got broadband. I installed Zone Alarm and started getting all sorts of problems with the PC just locking up. I eventually found the answer in the FAQ section of their web-site that the cordless mouse somehow interfered with zone alarm and vice versa giving the results I saw. Why?How? dunno they just did!
I changed back to a corded mouse and have had no problems since.
Posted on: 09 December 2004 by Chunny Nochubb
Thanks guys.
So far on the list I have:-
Flat screen- no bigger than 15 inch
Corded Keyboard and Corded mouse – He has a desk to put them on – and my cordless mouse eats batteries.
Small printer.
I think also DVD/CDRW combo – just in case – and forget about floppies – (he probably thinks these are damaged body parts anyway).
But there is limited room under his desk for a box and ideally he would need a very small or very slim one, and I can only find these at a higher price than a basic laptop.
CNC
So far on the list I have:-
Flat screen- no bigger than 15 inch
Corded Keyboard and Corded mouse – He has a desk to put them on – and my cordless mouse eats batteries.
Small printer.
I think also DVD/CDRW combo – just in case – and forget about floppies – (he probably thinks these are damaged body parts anyway).
But there is limited room under his desk for a box and ideally he would need a very small or very slim one, and I can only find these at a higher price than a basic laptop.
CNC
Posted on: 09 December 2004 by Paul Hutchings
Tricky one.
Small Form Factor PCs tend to be fairly pricey unless you build your own.
Desktops are cheaper but obviously take more space.
Laptops can be brought new for about £500 these days, but you mention a DVD-RW which tends to be on the more expensive models.
I'm not a fan of laptops unless it is to travel with, simply because the cost when anything breaks is horrid, and of course it assumes you can get the parts (less of a problem with a large brand).
Do you want to buy it as a full system, or are you prepared to buy parts and build it?
Paul
Small Form Factor PCs tend to be fairly pricey unless you build your own.
Desktops are cheaper but obviously take more space.
Laptops can be brought new for about £500 these days, but you mention a DVD-RW which tends to be on the more expensive models.
I'm not a fan of laptops unless it is to travel with, simply because the cost when anything breaks is horrid, and of course it assumes you can get the parts (less of a problem with a large brand).
Do you want to buy it as a full system, or are you prepared to buy parts and build it?
Paul
Posted on: 09 December 2004 by Chunny Nochubb
Paul
I want to buy one off the shelf (ideally a main brand) as I am not clever enough to build one and I assumed a DVD player/ CDRW combined drive not DVDRW - I thought these were available as an option.
CNC
I want to buy one off the shelf (ideally a main brand) as I am not clever enough to build one and I assumed a DVD player/ CDRW combined drive not DVDRW - I thought these were available as an option.
CNC
Posted on: 09 December 2004 by Hawk
depending on how much you want to spend how about an iMAC??? compact and reliable... and easier to manage the war against viruses..
My mum loves hers to bits..
My mum loves hers to bits..
Posted on: 10 December 2004 by Chunny Nochubb
Hawk
I understand that Macs have lots of advantages but the trouble is we would have to learn how to use them first and would not be able to give instructions over the phone.
CNC
I understand that Macs have lots of advantages but the trouble is we would have to learn how to use them first and would not be able to give instructions over the phone.
CNC
Posted on: 10 December 2004 by JamieWednesday
Posted on: 10 December 2004 by David Stewart
Don't know what your budget is but the Dell Optiplex range have a very small footprint. With some of them you can clip the system unit onto the back of the LCD monitor to save even more desktop space.
Posted on: 10 December 2004 by Derek Wright
If your Dad is a PC novice and you have to answer questions you will have a learning curve so as to understand how to undestand how your Dad is viewing the computer and trying to understand it.
If you know too much about using Windows and the applications, you will assume that your Dad has too high a basic understanding.
If you get him an IMac you will have to learn with him - but because you will have the basic understanding you will be able to learn and lead him.
Have a play with the Mac OS and see how you get on, it may encurage you to take your father down that route.
Derek
<< >>
If you know too much about using Windows and the applications, you will assume that your Dad has too high a basic understanding.
If you get him an IMac you will have to learn with him - but because you will have the basic understanding you will be able to learn and lead him.
Have a play with the Mac OS and see how you get on, it may encurage you to take your father down that route.
Derek
<< >>
Posted on: 10 December 2004 by Chunny Nochubb
Thanks for your thougthts guys - I was hoping perhaps rather naively to get the lot for £500 - which you can just about do with the cheapest laptops.
Jamie
Thanks - the mesh with the micro box certainly fits the bill at £589 and is on the list.
David - I have looked at the Dells as I have one, but only found the optiplex after ringing them up to ask if they did such an item (was directed to small business) and to find out why the prices where much higher when you went in to configure, than they were on the offer page, which is due to them automatically selecting for you - 3 years on site warranty. They do look very small, but although pictured with flat screens those seem to be an upgrade and then you have to add VAT and Delivery, so I think they are too expensive.
Derek - Interesting thoughts but although I am the family expert on PCs, I don't know that much about them and also he can consult all his grandchildren as well, who also only know PCs.
CNC
Jamie
Thanks - the mesh with the micro box certainly fits the bill at £589 and is on the list.
David - I have looked at the Dells as I have one, but only found the optiplex after ringing them up to ask if they did such an item (was directed to small business) and to find out why the prices where much higher when you went in to configure, than they were on the offer page, which is due to them automatically selecting for you - 3 years on site warranty. They do look very small, but although pictured with flat screens those seem to be an upgrade and then you have to add VAT and Delivery, so I think they are too expensive.
Derek - Interesting thoughts but although I am the family expert on PCs, I don't know that much about them and also he can consult all his grandchildren as well, who also only know PCs.
CNC
Posted on: 10 December 2004 by J.N.
I can heartily recommend 'Evesham' who have a good reputation and real shops.
Helpful, knowledgeable staff who can help with problems. Much better than buying a PC on-line I reckon.
John.
Helpful, knowledgeable staff who can help with problems. Much better than buying a PC on-line I reckon.
John.
Posted on: 10 December 2004 by Roy T
CNC,
When you buy the new kit it might be a good idea for you to get on to the MS admin account and remove things like pop offers from the vendor, the popup registration screens from half installed software and other clutter that may not be of little use to a Silver Surfer. You may then wish to isntall avti-virus software (free or not) and make sure that this runs without pestering you father all that often (you will need to do the weekly updates). You may also wish to change things like MS automatic update, set him up with a restricted account & install Mozilla FireFox browser to ensure safer surfing. Giving a family member a computer is not just for the hoiliday it is support for life!
When you buy the new kit it might be a good idea for you to get on to the MS admin account and remove things like pop offers from the vendor, the popup registration screens from half installed software and other clutter that may not be of little use to a Silver Surfer. You may then wish to isntall avti-virus software (free or not) and make sure that this runs without pestering you father all that often (you will need to do the weekly updates). You may also wish to change things like MS automatic update, set him up with a restricted account & install Mozilla FireFox browser to ensure safer surfing. Giving a family member a computer is not just for the hoiliday it is support for life!
Posted on: 10 December 2004 by Chunny Nochubb
John - I will have a look at Evesham, I see they have a shop in Larndarn and I am going up there on Monday.
Roy - good points here - I recently set up a laptop that my wife was given from by her school(she's a teacher not a pupil), it was my first look at windows XP but the manufacturers were not plugging all their gear so the only thing I really needed help on was connecting it to our router but of course each manufacturer is different.
CNC
Roy - good points here - I recently set up a laptop that my wife was given from by her school(she's a teacher not a pupil), it was my first look at windows XP but the manufacturers were not plugging all their gear so the only thing I really needed help on was connecting it to our router but of course each manufacturer is different.
CNC
Posted on: 10 December 2004 by Paul Hutchings
quote:
Originally posted by Chunny Nochubb:
Paul
I want to buy one off the shelf (ideally a main brand) as I am not clever enough to build one and I assumed a DVD player/ CDRW combined drive not DVDRW - I thought these were available as an option.
CNC
Well, this is one of those "easy for you to say" statements perhaps, but they really aren't difficult to put together, especially if you go for the a SFF model as most of it's integrated and therefore done for you already.
I'd suggest for laptops look at IBM and Toshiba, I think they're the best, they support their products for a long time, and they can be found for around £500 ex VAT.
On the desktop side, £500 for a PC isn't a struggle, £500 for a small PC probably is though.
I'd tend to suggest Dell or Evesham for mainstream desktops.
cheers,
Paul
Posted on: 11 December 2004 by Chunny Nochubb
Thanks for your help guys, I have now looked at all your suggestions and am going to get a Dell laptop for the following reasons.
1. Small form desk-tops are all at a premium even to basic laptops
2. In previous discussions my dad has always shown more interest in laptops than desktops, mainly because he doesn’t think he has the room for a desktop and he has seen my wife’s
3. Also as she says when he has a problem he can bring it round.
4. And Dell because I could find one on their small business site for £504.09 (inc Vat +delivery) with a 15” screen DVD/ CDRW Combo and a free all in one printer – which would save him going down the road to do his photocopying- if he can find somewhere to put it.
This works out around £100 cheaper than the other makes and as he is only going to be a basic and at best itinerant user, it makes sense to keep it as cheap as possible and I presume that their laptops do work if not perhaps as well as the other makes suggested.
Now then on to swapping my system for a Bose – do they work better on Mana or shall I get a Fraim?
CNC
1. Small form desk-tops are all at a premium even to basic laptops
2. In previous discussions my dad has always shown more interest in laptops than desktops, mainly because he doesn’t think he has the room for a desktop and he has seen my wife’s
3. Also as she says when he has a problem he can bring it round.
4. And Dell because I could find one on their small business site for £504.09 (inc Vat +delivery) with a 15” screen DVD/ CDRW Combo and a free all in one printer – which would save him going down the road to do his photocopying- if he can find somewhere to put it.
This works out around £100 cheaper than the other makes and as he is only going to be a basic and at best itinerant user, it makes sense to keep it as cheap as possible and I presume that their laptops do work if not perhaps as well as the other makes suggested.
Now then on to swapping my system for a Bose – do they work better on Mana or shall I get a Fraim?
CNC