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Is there anybody......out there

Posted by: Jonathan Gorse on 05 September 2000

With the current lack of activity on the forum I am tempted to quote Pink Floyd from 'The Wall' - I don't want to stir up a hornets nest but it worries me that every time I log on nowadays very little has happened on the forum in the past few hours and I mean that not as a moan but as someone who like many of you found this a very special place to be.

Perhaps naim could post an update on how things are going in looking for a new solution to save us all speculating.

If the issue with the old forum was server capacity maybe they could have removed all the old messages and started afresh. I can't remember the details of why we ended up here so this may be an inappropriate suggestion.

I'm sure everyone is doing their best but it would be easier to keep the faith if we all knew that there was light at the end of the tunnel - frankly I wouldn't invest any more effort in improving this software but concentrate on finding another host for the old.

Jonathan

Posted on: 06 September 2000 by Nic Peeling
Bob says:
quote:
respect
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The way I see the future and for that matter the purpose of the forum is _ relatively _ simple.
Regarding the new format, I believe that we all sing off the same hymn sheet. I take it as read that we would all like the forum to continue, but that it needs some radical tweaking, if not a new host. To this end lets keep talking & work towards that goal.

As for free speech, that would appear to be slightly different. I guess the reason for the existence of the forum is that Naim can hear what they need to know, and that the contributors can say what they want to say. The dilemma here is that the most outspoken contributors that tell it the way it is, which is exactly what Naim want to know, if a little uncomfortable at times, feel that they may be censored if they step beyond slightly fuzzy boundaries.

IMHO I think that we should be allowed to say ( within clear, but not unreasonably restrictive guidelines ) what we want.

I personally feel that the forum has a healthy future if both Naim & the contributors have mutual respect for each other.

Bob.

Couldn't (didn't) put it better myself.

Mick Parry mentioned about my recent kicking from JW on the Mana forum:

quote:
Yesterday, for the first time in many months, I perused the Mana forum and JW/Mana appears to have has as much charm as a bear with a sore head.

He is positively insulting to all and saundry and PS is a paragon of virtue in comparison.

I agree that Paul is a pussy cat compared to JW, but even so I feel that Paul is at times too aggressive, sarcastic and apparantly unaware of netiquette to be an outstanding moderator. I was pretty caustic in an earlier posting about Paul's response to Mike Hanson objecting to Paul editing his comments into peoples' posts. In response to this and other comments the moderator suggests I (and Neil) consider leaving the forum. Not what I expect from a moderator.

I really hope the forum picks up in terms of content, and that this is indeed a temporary lull. I was flagging my concerns that it may be a trend.

Nic P

Posted on: 06 September 2000 by Former member
I am one naim user that doesn't think there's much wrong with the present format or how it's being managed. I come here for advice about equipment and views on music and I've had some really useful stuff in those areas. As most of the complaints seem to come from a pretty regular core of users why not start your own debating/discussion forum somewhere else as it sounds judging from your criticisms that you're pretty computer literate. It also seems like you're a very small percentage of the thousands of naim users who must use this forum who don't mind it and who don't have a problem with it's management.
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    • Posted on: 06 September 2000 by Former member
    I generally try and work to improve things rather then setting up splinter groups. Fragmentation and dilution of effort is normally very counter productive. If I did not care I would just not bother to post and try and get improvement.

    Regards

    Neil

    Posted on: 06 September 2000 by Greg Beatty
    "little activity the past few days..."

    FWIW, it was a 3-day weekend here in the States (don't know about Canada, UK, or other places...) and one of the highest travel weekends of the year. So many of us may have been incommunicado. I took Tuesday off also.

    As far as censorship goes, it was a big issue many months ago on the old forum, but really has not appeared to be a problem of late. As far as the handling of the Mana thing goes, the 'Mana marketing' on Naim's forum really seemed out of hand to me when Naim finally said something and put a stop to it. Naim's action at the time was appropriate AFAIAC.

    As for the moderators injecting into existing posts, hummm....

    I can understand why people would take offense at this but do note that the current forum does not allow a direct response to a particular message. If the moderator has a *strong need* to respond directly to mis-information or whatever in a given post, editing the existing post is the only way to do it. But, generally, the new information may not be seen as I've trained myself to jump to the end of threads for new messages rather than re-reading threads to see if something has been editorialized.

    Well, that's my $.02.

    - GregB

    [This message was edited by Greg Beatty on WEDNESDAY 06 September 2000 at 19:38.]

    Posted on: 06 September 2000 by Former member
    "As for the moderators injecting into existing posts, hummm....

    I can understand why people would take offense at this but do note that the current forum does not allow a direct response to a particular message. If the moderator has a need to respond directly to mis-information or whatever in a given post, editing the existing post is the only way to do it."

    I would regard mis-information as warranting such treatment. Unfortunately I don't think this applies to the occassions I recall it being used so far.

    Perhaps I've just got moderator envy wanting to reply directly to posts rather than just tagging on to the end.

    Regards

    Neil

    Posted on: 06 September 2000 by Paul Stephenson
    I do not intend to make a habit of replying within a post. It just happened, not pre- planned. If you look at the total number of my postings 80 odd,3 perhaps have been inserts.

    [This message was edited by Paul Stephenson on WEDNESDAY 06 September 2000 at 20:12.]

    Posted on: 06 September 2000 by ken c
    hi folks, the new forum interface is quite different from the last one. i dont claim to have exercised all the features -- for example, i haven't yet had a need to search. however, for the basics -- i.e read views of other naim owners -- and occasionally come out of the lurk to respond -- its OK for me. i can see all messages for a particular topic by oppening in a new window.

    i have to admit its taken me a while to figure out whats going on -- but now i have a well rehe****d script -- i have no problems at all... i am not a web expert -- if i dont like the faces, i will simply not use them...

    enjoy ...

    ken

    Posted on: 07 September 2000 by bob atherton
    Do we really have to have a net nanny more stringent than Mary Poppins? Every time I see the word rehe****d it makes me cringe.

    Anyway surly the word A R S E is no worse than 'bum' or maybe I'm just a yob.

    I will now wash my mouth with soap & water.

    Bob

    Posted on: 07 September 2000 by Former member
    quote:
    Do we really have to have a net nanny more stringent than Mary Poppins? Every time I see the word rehe****d it makes me cringe.

    I couldn't agree more. The participants in this forum are adults. Most television and radio programs no longer exercise the kind of censorship imposed on this forum. In one of my infrequent visits to the Mana forum, I was delighted to see Tanais Fox (or whatever name he happened to adopt at the time) describe certain people as a "bunch of ****s" without any attempt to curtail his language. For god's sake, "****", "****", "****" are all good old-fashioned English words which can be heard any day of the week in prime-time television, and I strongly object to having my language curbed by a bunch of electronics technicians. It is patronising and insulting. So stick that in your ******* and then ******** it!

    Ross

    Posted on: 07 September 2000 by Former member
    Just wanted to add my voice to those who don't like the new forum software. The new messages features work inconsistently, and it's absurd that there's no threading for messages. It is faster than the old software, which is about the only nice thing I can say about it.

    What do people think about Slashcode? For those who don't know, that's an open-source (i.e., free) piece of software used on slashdot.org and other sites. Extensible, powerful, fast, etc. etc. There must be someone out there who could help naim set up a linux box running slashcode...

    å

    Posted on: 07 September 2000 by matthewr
    Bob said: "Every time I see the word rehe****d it makes me cringe"

    If I wished to enquire about Naim dealers in North Lincolnshire steel towns will the forum software allow S****horpe through unchanged? Or will I get S****thorpe?

    Matthew

    Posted on: 07 September 2000 by Kevin Hughes
    quote:
    Do we really have to have a net nanny more stringent than Mary Poppins? Every time I see the word rehe****d it makes me cringe.

    This has been winding me up since day one, not only is it pathetic it also makes many posts difficult to read. I am rubish at word games and the like, my brain is just not wired that way, and when perfectly normal words are censored I often find it hard to follow a post. If lots of diffrent words get censored in a post I give up. How non native english speakers cope with this I don't know, badly I expect.

    Given that you have to declare yourself over 16 to take part in this forum I really don't see why any censorship is necessary at all. The BBFC have decided that massive use of strong swear words in 15 certificate films is OK, meanwhile Naim are treating us like 5 year olds.

    The fact that the infopoop software cannot tell the diffrence between S****horpe and the word c-u-n-t on its own is even more pathetic, and illustrates just how clueless they are. This lot introduce threading and new messages soon? No f-u-c-k-ing chance.

    Kevin.

    Posted on: 07 September 2000 by Former member
    quote:
    This has been winding me up since day one, not only is it pathetic it also makes many posts difficult to read. ....
    The fact that the infopoop software cannot tell the diffrence between S****horpe and the word c-u-n-t on its own is even more pathetic, and illustrates just how clueless they are. This lot introduce threading and new messages soon? No f-u-c-k-ing chance.

    Kevin.

    To me, it appears that editing and censoring people's posts generates a lot more annoyance and anger than the use of the occasional swear word, so I don't see the point in policing. Your message will proably be deleted soon, as has happened with two of mine and at least one by Mike Hanson in anoither thread. I wrote b-a-s-t-a-r-d-s, a word, like so many others, I learned from famous English novels.

    Vuk.