System Pics 2005

Posted by: Steve Toy on 05 November 2004

Further to Geoff P's marvellous pics on This thread, a new year and a new thread to post pics of your pride and joy (all-Naim or at least part-Naim) awaits so that we can all get nit-picky about placement issues - to your ultimate sonic benefit! Smile

Regards,

Steve.

[This message was edited by Adam Meredith on Thu 11 November 2004 at 20:32.]
Posted on: 10 April 2005 by Richard AV
quote:
Originally posted by Alco:
Ok, here are my latest systempics.

I decided to change the place of the system and speakers. (for the ...th time Roll Eyes )

You win some, you loose some.

My room has got TERRIBLE acoustics Frown
Regarding the sound of my system in my room,
I regret buying this appartment 7 years ago.
My previous, small rental appartment was WAY MUCH better in this regard.

Whatever speaker I set up in my room, I get this horrible, fat, uncontrolled boomy bass.

So, in the way my speakers are placed now, the bass has gotten a little better.
(as long as I sit down! As soon as I stand op...it's back)

The whole soundstage has gotten wider and deeper because the speakers are further apart.
On the other hand instruments and voices have lost some body, and can sound a little thin at times.

I had to use some left over VDH Clearwater cable. It's the only cable I got left that's long enough. (2x5 meters)

Anyway, before I change my mind and put the whole thing back to were it was yesterday...
here are some pics:






That acoustic thing is getting me pretty desperate Red Face Frown

Time to move Big Grin Roll Eyes Winker

regards,
Alco


I don't think that floor is doing you many favours RE your boomy bass. Perhaps some carefully positioned room treatment may help?
Posted on: 10 April 2005 by Alco
quote:
I don't think that floor is doing you many favours RE your boomy bass. Perhaps some carefully positioned room treatment may help?

Hi Richard,

Hmm, you might be right.
But before I had the laminate floor, I had carpet on the floor, and I also had some trouble with boomy bass.
(although, if memory serves me right, it wasn't as bad as it is now)

I already thought about removing the laminate floor.
The carpet is still lying underneath, so the laminate is layed floating, directly on top of the carpet.
(hope my English is good enough Roll Eyes )

quote:
Perhaps some carefully positioned room treatment may help?

That's problem nr.2...

I hardly have room left for room treatment.
Assuming that it's placed in corners.

I have 2 doors in the corners, behind the listening position.
Posted on: 10 April 2005 by J.N.
Greetings Alco;

I can sympathise, having to wring the best I can from a 'difficult' room myself. Richard is right - hard reflective floors are not good for acoustics.

I'm guessing that your speakers are ported?

I can't get on with ported speakers (or subs for that matter). Can you try some sealed box speakers - they seem to control the bass buch better in acoustically problematic rooms.

The other thing I would say is - ignore the rules. Try the speakers where ever you can, no matter how illogical the position might seem.

My SBL's (not noted for boomy bass!) produced a 40/50Hz bass hump when used in the logical place in my room (against a solid outside wall). I tried them back to a plasterboard partition wall and hey-presto! it worked pretty well.

I now have Allaes in the same position, and am happy with the sound.

Good luck.

John.
Posted on: 10 April 2005 by Alco
quote:
reetings Alco;

I can sympathise, having to wring the best I can from a 'difficult' room myself. Richard is right - hard reflective floors are not good for acoustics.


Hi John,
Are hard reflective floors bad in the sense of:
hard treble/echoes, or particularly boomy bass ?
(or both perhaps ?)

quote:
I'm guessing that your speakers are ported?

I can't get on with ported speakers (or subs for that matter). Can you try some sealed box speakers - they seem to control the bass buch better in acoustically problematic room

Yes, my speakers are ported.
I stuffed 'em with some left over spunges.
(as i did/had to do with al the ported speakers I had before)

I can't get along with most ported speakers either.

I do have some sealed speakers at the moment!

They do control bass better indeed.
It's still not 100% the way I'd like, but it's ok.
I have them on loan from a friend who wants to sell them. (for only 300,- euro/pair Smile )

Only downside is...the fronts are missing, and they're designed to work best with the fronts in place.
The other downside is...they look horrible outdated, imho.
(with their 70's dark brown colour Frown )

It's the Rogers Studio 3







I'm used to the stylish Italian looks and finish of my Diapasons Roll Eyes

regards,
Alco
Posted on: 10 April 2005 by Polarbear
They look like nice little speakers Big Grin
Posted on: 10 April 2005 by Geoff P
Alco

You say you have Bass boom but with small speakers like you are using it would be upper bass rather than the deep stuff I would think.
It should be more practical to build Bass traps to deal with that since they won't need to be as big as they would be down around 30Hz!
If you are interested do a search on "Bass traps" and you will find links a plenty.

regards
GEOFF
Posted on: 10 April 2005 by Nuno Baptista
Alco:
You still has the Sonneteer?I thought you want to sell it!
Posted on: 10 April 2005 by Alco
Hi Geoff,

Well, it's like this.
As soon as some notes on a CD become lower than a certain frequency (don't know how low) it's like the room automatically blows up the bass in that area.
(hope I explain it right)

It only happends with bass, not with voices.

My room is only 20 square meters, and I don't have much room to hang bass-traps.
It's not possible to place bass-traps in the corner!

As long as I use the Rogers speakers, I can live with the bass. It's pretty tight.
(now I only have to deal with the looks Roll Eyes )

regards,
Alco
Posted on: 10 April 2005 by Alco
quote:
Alco:
You still has the Sonneteer? I thought you want to sell it!

Hi Nuno,

You're right... I do want to sell it, but there doesn't seem to be anyone interested.
I placed several ads more than 1 month ago.
Posted on: 10 April 2005 by thirty three and a third
Alco -

Two suggestions on cleaning up that bass:

If you can, get the spikes that are on the bottom of your speaker stands, punctured all the way down to your sub-floor.

Try building some bass traps. It looks to me like got some room over in the corners of your room behind your speakers. Some free standing ones like these should do the trick.

Good luck, john
Posted on: 10 April 2005 by mitchlambertuk
Hi, I am a newbie here so I thought I would give you all a good laugh at my humble system.

Not up to your standard yet but we all have to start somewhere. A bit of a blast from the past for a lot of you, I bet.

By the way, any ideas how to get the logo glowing?

Mitch.
Posted on: 10 April 2005 by mitchlambertuk
Here is another
Posted on: 10 April 2005 by mitchlambertuk
and another.
Posted on: 10 April 2005 by mitchlambertuk
And one more for good measure, the view from the listening sofa! A bit sparse compared to most on here.
Posted on: 10 April 2005 by Onthlam
Alco-
I would like to throw my 2 cents in here...

Are you on the first floor? If so, what would be underneath your place and would you have access to it?

Havin an idea,
Marc
Posted on: 10 April 2005 by Alco
quote:
Alco-
I would like to throw my 2 cents in here...

Are you on the first floor? If so, what would be underneath your place and would you have access to it?

Hi Marc,

No,...I live on the second floor.
quote:
Two suggestions on cleaning up that bass:

If you can, get the spikes that are on the bottom of your speaker stands, punctured all the way down to your sub-floor.

Sorry, that's no option. I have the laminate floor laying on top of the old carpet floor, so the spikes wouldn't be long enough.
(+ the fact that I'd ruin the laminate)

regards,
Alco
Posted on: 10 April 2005 by kuma
quote:
Whatever speaker I set up in my room, I get this horrible, fat, uncontrolled boomy bass.


Alco,

Maybe time to ditch your Nait 2? Smile

I've been using one in my office system whilst my 3R is getting a check-up.

The first thing I've noticed is the lack of bass control compared to the Nait 3R/HC.

Too bad the Nait 2 does not have the *split* option. It makes a significant diffrence in controlling bass as well as giving a larger percieved power output.

My speakers are at 92db./ 4 ohms ( rear ported ) but I am careful with the volume level with the Nait 2. ( after all, the solid state 18 watts only go so far )

I haven't tried the KAN I or Royd with the Nait 2 yet, but I doubt they'll save the day.
Posted on: 10 April 2005 by Alco
quote:
Alco,

Maybe time to ditch your Nait 2?

I don't think the Nait-2 has something to do with the uncontrolled bass.
I also used a 102/180 for a while, and it hardly made any difference.
It's 95% an acoustic problem.

I also had Kan's.
They do deliver tight bass, but sounded worse in practically every other area.

regards,
Alco
Posted on: 11 April 2005 by Lee Brindley
quote:
Hi Lee,

What type of clamp/weight are you using with that Xerxes? Are you still removing the spindle when you put it on?

I'm also a Xerxes owner and I understand that most folks don't use clamps or weights because they feel it defeats the design purpose of de-coupling the LP from the bearing via the removable spindle. What is your experience here?



Dex

Its the (in)famous Shun Mook weight. Borrowed from a friend. Ive heard it work very well on other players - just wondered what if did for the Xerxes...

On some records very good...surface noise reduced, wider soundstage, more clarity. On others...it just takes the fizz away, the soul. So inconclusive - throw in the bearing/designs issues and probably not worth it.

I know Touraj's views on these devices and whilst i accept these to a degree, tweaking has been around in hifi for so long, one persons view maybe different (key word) not necc wrong.

I still cant make my mind up on this bloody thing anyway!!!!

Lee

Oh btw you have to leave the centre spindle in.
Posted on: 11 April 2005 by Nick_S
Alco, it is difficult in a small room, but I would suggest you try the speakers further away from the back wall. The instructions I have for similar Rogers' LS1 loudspeakers suggest that:

"For the best results the speaker should be sited on rigid stands approximately 50cm high, positioned so that side walls or reflecting objects are at least 1 metre away with at least 50cm behind the speaker. The best stereo performance will be when the speakers are slighly below the listener's ears, angled inwards so that their axis crosses just in front of the listening position."

I started with this setup for my Chartwell PM55 loudspeakers (same cabinet volume, port and bass-unit, but different tweeter to the LS1) and moved them gradually backwards towards the rear wall stopping when the bass became too rich.

Nick
Posted on: 11 April 2005 by Alco
quote:
Alco, it is difficult in a small room, but I would suggest you try the speakers further away from the back wall. The instructions I have for similar Rogers' LS1 loudspeakers suggest that

Hi Nick,

The Rogers Studio-3 was designed to work best close to a wall.
The manual says 15cm at a max. I have 'em placed 35cm from the backwall.

regards,
Alco
Posted on: 11 April 2005 by Geoff P
Alco
Just out of interest what are your room dimensions exactly (not approximate).If you don't mind I can plug them into a little program which will predict what the resonant frequencies are if you give me width, length and height. It will also suggest a possible place for the speakers to minimize problems.
It is really only for info but at least you will know what your up against.

regards
GEOFF
Posted on: 11 April 2005 by Nick_S
Alco,

It it interesting that the Studio-3 were designed for use near to a wall, as most Rogers loudspeakers appear to have been designed for placement away from boundaries. I think some experimentation with placement in the room may still be worthwhile (I see you have done a lot of this already!).

Nick
Posted on: 11 April 2005 by Alco
Hi Nick,

Sorry,...I meant the Studio-3 instead of -2!
You are right, most speakers (also Rogers) are meant to be placed away from side/backwalls.
The Studio-3 is a sealed speaker, which needs the backwall to give adequate bass response.
Btw, the Studio-3 mentioned on the Rogers site looks very different from the one I have Confused

To Geoff:

Thanx!
My room size is 5.10 x 3.90 meters.
Don't know the exact height though.
(I think about 2.40 meter.

Btw...I just found this review conclusion of the Studio-3, in a What HiFi yearbook of 1994:

"Accurate, detailed presentation, imbued with bags of vitality and some passion.
Best used in higher quality system and sited close to rear wall"
Posted on: 11 April 2005 by domfjbrown
quote:
Originally posted by gusi:
The AV system.

Yamaha amp, Senta speaker and el-cheapo dvd/vcr/stb


Gusi - what's the AV rack you use? I MUST know! (I'm in the market for one so I can get my bedroom back from a tea trolley (yes, a real one, not Quadraspire!) and a Sony TV stand). I need space for:
Pioneer 1750 Laserdisc
Yamaha E800 DD/DTS/DPL (same size as Laserdisc!)
Playstation 1 (on board on floor)
Philips VHS
Pioneer DVD
Pioneer tape
Cable box (Pace POS)
I reckon my centre speaker (Paradigm CC170) would probably fit in the same space as your Senta looking at it (though I should get a Senta since my main/rears are Rega Smile).

System photos to follow!