More upgrade advice needed

Posted by: kan man on 05 January 2001

Hi all

I'm looking for some advice on the options I should be considering and their relative merits and I really need some input from this forum because the good old days of dealers having loads of differently configured turntables are long gone.

My current system consists of:
LP12/Valhalla/Circus/Akito/K9 that I bought new in 1989 which I think makes the Akito the Japanese one. The TT has had nothing done to it apart from the Circus around 1993 plus replacement styli.

82/Supercap bought new a year ago.

Chrome bumper 250 bought 2nd hand a few years ago that probably needs re-capping.

Mk 1 Kans on Sound Org floor stands bought new in 1987

Black snaics apart from the 4 pin one which is grey.

All the kit sits on two 2 tier sound org stands - LP12/SC and 82/250 (top/bottom).

I have dedicated mains, the setup and room accoustics are now pretty good and I love the music it makes - I'm happy but I want more.

I'm thinking that the TT is the limiting factor now and have asked my dealer to look out for a 2nd hand Ittok as one option (along with a shiny new Dynavector) and I'm also going to investigate the Prefix (if it can be powered by my SC or my old SNAPS. These are (relatively) low budget options but I do ultimately want to get a top spec LP12.

All comments and suggestions are welcome including non TT options and secondhand but my specific queries are:

1. One option is to buy a top spec 2nd hand LP12 and sell mine on. How risky is this in terms of getting a duffer - are worn/damaged arm bearings immediately obvious to the ear? What else is there to look out for?

2. The new Rega has gained a number of fans - is it better or different. I prefer the sound of an LP12 to the Roksan for example but if I start thinking about spending 1500 ukp on a new Ekos plus cartridge etc, common sense tells me I should reconfirm my choice of the Linn first. Are there any other TT's that I should be checking out.

3. The circus upgrade made obvious sense to me because it resolved more detail and made complex pieces easier to understand. The benefits of the Lingo were much less apparent so I didn't go for it at the time. It will now be very difficult to demo Valhalla v Lingo v Armageddon properly so I would be very interested in thoughts from anyone who has had the dem and made the choice.

4. Ultimately, I probably have to choose between an ARO or Ekos assuming I keep the Linn. Which way do most Kan fans go? Not sure that I can live without a cueing arm though which may decide the issue.

5. My sound org equipment stands seem to work well so without starting the m/h/q/p etc debate again is it worth looking at changing these before upgrading the TT assuming that I could only do one or the other.

6. Are there any worthwhile improvements to be had for less than 500 ukp

7. What should I do with a budget of 1000 ukp

8. What about 2500 ukp - but this probably puts off CD purchase for another year - I can live with it !

9. Does anyone have a view on how much it will cost to re-cap and re-case my 250 so it matches the rest of my kit.

Cheers
Steve
Why settle for 51/4 inches when you can have 12?

Posted on: 05 January 2001 by Keith Mattox

I can't speak about stands, but your LP12 is a target of some thought. Have you considered upgrading the power supply? Many on this forum have good words to say about running their LP12 with naim's Armageddon, Linn's Lingo and some other companies' offerings. Anyone?

Also take a look (listen) to Rega's offerings - I'm debating about upgrading my PS vs. getting a P25 or whereabouts.

Cheers

Keith.

ex-audiophile

Posted on: 05 January 2001 by Eric Barry

"Black snaics apart from the 4 pin one which is grey."

I just put in a 4 pin black snaic after adding the five pin one in November and I found it made a much bigger difference--either due to synergy, or because it has a greater effect, so do this immediately. With 32-5/hi/140 I hear much better detail and layering of instruments, deeper punchier bass, and more rounded sound for transients (without losing attack).

"1. One option is to buy a top spec 2nd hand LP12 and sell mine on. How risky is this in terms of getting a duffer - are worn/damaged arm bearings
immediately obvious to the ear? What else is there to look out for?"

This can be the most economical way to upgrade with turntables--can't speak to risk, but many people can service a Linn. The Ittock, I take it, is prone to bearing problems.

--Eri

Posted on: 06 January 2001 by Richard Paget

Don't think you can turn the chrome bumper sleave around can you?--the bolt holes underneath aren't symmetrical.--works on the shoebox preamps,snaps,early hicaps

Cost of recap/rebalance =~£130
Cost of new aluminium sleave,plastic green front light and machining to fit and black on off switch--sounds a lot.(ring Naim)

sell your amp for £650
buy new style for £850/£900 ?less if you wait and spend your recap money on the new one.

cheers Richard

Posted on: 06 January 2001 by Allan Probin

quote:
Don't think you can turn the chrome bumper sleave around can you?

Nope, don't think you can, properly. The heatsinks for the amp and regulator boards are clamped to the outer casework via these bolts. Also, the transformer is located to the case via another bolt.

I'm fairly sure that ommitting this is going to upset a few things that have carefully been designed in.

Not worth it just for appearance sake.

Allan

Posted on: 06 January 2001 by kan man

Thanks guys for some excellent posting and sound advice. I'm just about to pop down to my dealer and have a chat about these suggestions and see what they recommend. I may well hold off actually spending anything until I've been to the Bristol HiFi show in Feb.

I've just got in with a few albums to check out later: Badly drawn boy, Mogwai, Steely Dan Royal Scam 180g reissue and some interesting 60's stuff from Wilkinson Tri-Cycle that I heard in the shop. Should keep me amused ahead of upgrades.

Will report back later. Keep the posts coming, I'm sure they will help others as well as myself.

Cheers
Steve

Posted on: 06 January 2001 by Chris Metcalfe

Keeps being mentioned above - could someone clarify? I originally thought the SNAIC which had been replaced was the 5 pin one between pre and power supply... is this the one between power supply & power amp with the cannon plug at one end?

Posted on: 06 January 2001 by Michael Dale

I remember way back when the new look was launched in 1989, and shortly after I read that naim were offering a service where you could have a new front panel with glowing green logo and a new sleeve fitted to old style boxes. I think that shoe-box items at that time were about £120 and full width boxes were about £180. E-mail naim for updated prices. Recapping varies in price depending on how many caps need doing. You'll have to let the naim boys look at it to be able to quote properly.

Posted on: 06 January 2001 by Michael Dale

Sorry, I posted message before signing off!

Best wishes, Mick Dale.

Posted on: 06 January 2001 by davidf

I have the same question as Chris Metcaffe, what is the deal with the 4 pin black snaic. I have 82/super and the only 4 pin connection is from the supercap to the 250 amp- and the amp end of the interconnect is this bulbous-shaped thing. Help please! david.

Posted on: 07 January 2001 by kan man

Chris, Davidf

Didn't mean to confuse you, I confused myself. You are correct, there are 2 snaics and a 4 pin to 3pin (bell thingy). Didn't look before opening mouth.

My logic went along the line of - 3 wires, 2 are shiny black snaics that came with the new kit, the third retained from my 42.5 setup, therefore it must be a 4 pin snaic that needs changing.

I have been known to put bottles of milk in the oven. Something to do with age I think...

Trip to my dealer was interesting though. Helpful as ever and a number of options that I can do in stages.

1. Fettle the LP12 and fit BNC connectors - I'm currently using adaptors.

2. Get 250 serviced (It's old - SN 33nn)c150ukp. I've dropped the idea of recasing and will probably sell and move onto 135's in the long term.

3. How about a rebuilt Troika for 495 ukp to fit into my Akito whilst thinking about 4.

4. ARO

I am very tempted to go for the Troika even in the Akito and spend some time practicing the manual cueing of records ready for an ARO. Still not sure what to do over power supplies and supports though. Will do some more research.

Cheers Steve

Posted on: 07 January 2001 by Bob Edwards

Steve--

Don't bother with the Troika in the Akito--get an Aro instead. Armageddon beckons, too--but get the deck serviced before anything else. I think you're on the mark with servicing the 250--that should be a significant improvement.

Cheers and good luck !

Bob

Posted on: 07 January 2001 by Top Cat

My dealer should have my s/h Aro by now or early next week, but I've never queued an Aro before, and now I hear talk of it being extremely wobbly - is this so?

This doesn't bother me so much, but a bit of warning would be good. I've a reasonably steady hand... most of the time

John

Posted on: 13 January 2001 by ken c

very easy. you get use dto it very quickly too. do a seach for frank abela's postings - he has one in which he describes much better than i can how to do this safely.

of course, if you have just heard a very liquid lunch or dinner, i suggest you stay away from your aro...

enjoy...

ken