shiny, new Mac

Count--

Not that Joe needs any help in defending himself here, but the "It was the Vuk bit..." was a JOKE.

I can't remember when Vuk got banned, but it may have been before you registered. Long story, best to let sleeping dogs lie....

Best,

Bob

"But at $5 for the whole suite I can't see any downside."

$5 is $5 Joe

We have Office on our iBook at home. It is nice, actually. Just wish it inlcuded Access.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Count,

quote:

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I have learnt that reading/writing on forums is fun, but as soon as someone's opinion is questioned it only ends up in a pointless argument.

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I'm here to have some fun to be sure, but I'm also here because I learn a lot from others on all sorts of topics. When I ask for clarification or evidence, it's almost certainly a genuine question.

quote:

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I had to go back to your post to see what you were refering to and I still don't know.

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It was a lame-arse joke that I was sure you'd get. If I recall correctly, you and Vuk used to spar frequently over things photographic, so I thought you got a bit red-faced when you saw his name.

quote:

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Sorry, it must be some sort of jibe to start an argument.

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I suppose my intention didn't come across clearly enough, but believe me when I say that I like to avoid online fights. Good, intelligent discussions, by all means. But arguments for argument's sake, most definitely not.

Joe

Somebody once asked me "If I had a light Mac ?"


Fritz Von Harold'sraincoat

Joe,

It's my view, as you know, that high end LCDs are now good enough for most people that the other advantages (size, power, etc) make them the obvious choice.

However, for professional/serious amateur use CRTs are still the prefered option becuase they do colour much better. Specfically they have a wider colour gamut and better colour accuracy -- see http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/20549.html for a reasonable summary.

I think count.d's view that they are "crap" is wrong, or at least overstating the problem to a great extent.

Matthew

Matthew,

quote:

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However, for professional/serious amateur use CRTs are still the prefered option becuase they do colour much better. Specfically they have a wider colour gamut and better colour accuracy

---

A few months ago I would have said the same thing -- actually, I think I did ;-) -- but the best LCDs appear to have made large strides in matching the colour gamut and accuracy of good CRTs. The truth is that I was hoping that good CRTs would be the undisputed winners since even an expensive 22-inch model is still several hundreds of dollars cheaper than a comparably sized LCD. But the reviews I've found on the Net (point taken, Count -- apply NaCl liberally) and posts on Photonet converge to the same point -- for all intents, the two types of monitors are more or less interchangeable for colour accuracy and gamut, so the choice comes down to preference and price.

See this article on Apple's Cinema displays, for example --

* Overall conclusions -- "Although the color gamut for the 23HD is just a little smaller then the 20" Cinema Display, both have color gamuts that are fully comparable to High End CRT."

* Comparison of the 20-inch Cinema Display to a high-end CRT -- "What you'll see in this 3D animation is that the new 20" Cinema Display has an overall color gamut that is comparable to High End CRT."

Joe

Joe -

"Good, intelligent discussions, by all means."

Like this fellow?

Here.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Greg,

quote:

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Like this fellow?

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Exactly. And while we're on the topic, allow me to vent some spleen. T'Pol, despite her Vulcan hotness, is no Spock.

Spock


T'Pol


Joe

quote:

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Originally posted by Joe Petrik:

Exactly. And while we're on the topic, allow me to vent some spleen. T'Pol, despite her Vulcan hotness, is no Spock.

Joe

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No. She's much, much better!

That last series of Enterprise has been the best Star Trek ever. And some of that is due to the superb acting of the lovely Vulcan. And she quoted Spock, we'll Spock kind of quoted her.



Stephen

Last Wednesday my wife said, "I think we're missing Enterprise." My reply, "So?"

Haven't seen it in months. Has it gotten better?

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Greg,

quote:

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Has it gotten better?

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Arguably, the theme song is the best part of the show, which ought to put this season's storyline into context.

Joe

Forgot to mention wy wife has a Dax uniform tucked away in the back of the closet.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Re the Apple screen I saw in Chicago - it was not a top of the line screen, but one that was attached to the hemisperical processor unit.

Why did I not search out a more appropriate screen - because I did not know any better - this was the first close encounter I have had with Apple products and so was just getting my first impressions - the big screen do sound to be rather attractive.

So I apologies for introducing a cat to the pidgeons.

However as part of my Apple orientation, one of the local newspapers that sometimes use my pictures have offered to give me an intro to their Apple system for the publishing and photo work.

One thing in the Apple screens favour was that it was not as angle of view dependant as my 4 year old laptop that I use as my travellling photo storage and viewing device (I never make a delete decision regarding exposure or sharpness when using the laptop).

At one time it was said that the Apple was a far better tool for photo manipulation compared to the Intel/AMD platform. Is this still true ?

Derek

<< >>

quote:

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Originally posted by Greg Beatty:
Haven't seen it in months. Has it gotten better?

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

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Slight understatement. I assume Joe hasn't seen the last series? It was up there with the best - the plot, acting and emotional involvement was the best Trek I've seen. It's a bit like DS9 - that was extremely pedestrian until the last series. Of course if you hate Buffy, Babylon 5 at it's best, Odyssey 5 et al, you're not going to like any sci-fi that takes itself seriously.

The Theme tune has, in fact, gotten worse.. What were they thinking of?

Regards

Stephen

PS Rereading, I see that Joe says he did see the last series. There's no hope for some people.

Derek,

quote:

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Re the Apple screen I saw in Chicago - it was not a top of the line screen, but one that was attached to the hemisperical processor unit.

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That would be an iMac, a stylish and somewhat expensive consumer machine. Although they don't have the last word on displays, the iMacs do have decent screens, so your comment about pictures being fuzzy and weak leads me to think that the resolution wasn't set at the monitor's optimum. Unlike CRTs, LCDs very much have one resolution where they shine -- and a whole bunch where they don't.

quote:

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At one time it was said that the Apple was a far better tool for photo manipulation compared to the Intel/AMD platform. Is this still true ?

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For what I've read, most of the advantage Mac has is in ease and simplicity of colour calibration relative to PCs. Personally, I just prefer Macs to PCs and Mac OS to Windows. Both machines do the job and the applications they share are largely indistinguishable from each other.


__________________________________________



Stephen,

quote:

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It was up there with the best - the plot, acting and emotional involvement was the best Trek I've seen.

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I hope you're being ironic -- in a way that even Alanis couldn't surpass.

Joe

One thing I hate about LCD is the limited viewing angle. Having to keep you head in the LCD's cone of vision is hardly ergonomic.

It's the kind of thing you don't notice or think you can live with until you get it home.

Last year I bought a NEC1765v (a good mass-market unit) and returned it, literally, 2 hours later because of its limited field of view and ghosting.

I hear 'ya Mike...

I noticed it when we bought our iBook...but no way its going back!!!

Only an issue for us really if more than one person wants to look at the screen at the same time.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

quote:

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When I ask for clarification or evidence, it's almost certainly a genuine question.

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Well I don't give evidence, take it or leave it. I never questioned the great Bonsai master Peter Chan about his Maples being in full sun when he showed me around his garden. Totally irrelevant, but true. (and over the next two years I found out he was right. I love the Japanese)

quote:

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I think count.d's view that they are "crap" is wrong, or at least overstating the problem to a great extent.

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LCD displays do not offer any benefits to the photoshop user. That is what my comments were about and that is why I think they are crap for that useage.

Hmm

Interesting... - I'd have to agree with count d that LCD displays "do not offer any benefits to the photoshop user" when one is talking critical colour, but then again, as has been pointed out, that does not mean that the best of them can't now provide a match, or so close it doesn't matter match, albeit at greater cost.

However, other aspects of using a display, such as contrast ratio, brightness, clarity and sharpness all tend to favour the LCD. If you're talking text, including tool palettes etc, and general freedom from eye strain, then there's no comparison. Whilst owning both CRT and LCD, the LCD 'blows' the CRT away in all areas except colour IMHO.

The angle of view comment is not really an issue anymore either in some cases.

Apple's stand-alone Cinema displays all have a 170 x 170 degree vertical x horizontal angle of view. The 15 & 17" Imac models have a lesser quality display, with a 120 x 90 angle of view, HOWEVER, their mounting system with the arm being adjustable in four planes effectively negates any disadvantage here, unless one insists upon changing ones seating position constantly. But then of course, one merely effortlessly moves the display to suit.

The 20" iMac has a 170 x 170 angle of view like the stand-alone Cinema displays.

Hence for the Apple Imac and Cinema displays, perceived limitations of the angle of view are not an issue in practical usuage.

Personally, I would never go back to an CRT display as either my only, or main display.

Hope this helps clarify the angle of view point.

Best Regards

John...

This is my last upgrade.... after this my system will be finished...:-)

Hmm

Interesting... -

I'd have to agree with Count D that LCD displays "do not offer any benefits to the photoshop user" when one is talking critical colour, but then again, as has been pointed out, that does not mean that the best of them can't now provide a match, or so close that it doesn't really matter, albeit at greater cost.

However, other aspects of using a display, such as contrast ratio, brightness, clarity and sharpness all tend to favour the LCD. If you're talking text and outlines, including tool palettes etc, and general freedom from eye strain, then there's no comparison. Whilst owning both CRT and LCD, the LCD 'blows' the CRT away in all areas except colour IMHO.

The angle of view comment is not really an issue anymore either in some cases.

Apple's stand-alone Cinema displays all have a 170 x 170 degree vertical x horizontal angle of view. The 15 & 17" Imac models have a lesser quality display, with a 120 x 90 angle of view, HOWEVER, their mounting system with the arm being adjustable in four planes effectively negates any disadvantage here, unless one insists upon changing ones seating position constantly. But then of course, one merely effortlessly moves the display to suit.

The 20" iMac has a 170 x 170 angle of view like the stand-alone Cinema displays.

Hence for the Apple Imac and Cinema displays, perceived limitations of the angle of view of an LCD display are not an issue in practical usuage.

Personally, I would never go back to an CRT display as either my only, or main display.

Hope this helps clarify the angle of view point.

Best Regards

John...

This is my last upgrade.... after this my system will be finished...:-)

quote:

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Originally posted by Joe Petrik:

Stephen,

quote:

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It was up there with the best - the plot, acting and emotional involvement was the best Trek I've seen.

---

I hope you're being ironic -- in a way that even Alanis couldn't surpass.

Joe

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No, I was being honest. I assume you've seen the last series (especially the last few episodes)? Genre TV at its best IM (and many others) HO.

Oh God, you mentioned Alanis....



Stephen

Joe

Have you got the Shiny new Mac yet

I had a go with Photoshop on a !.8 G5 today with PS - I was most impressed at the response

Derek

<< >>

Derek,

quote:

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Have you got the Shiny new Mac yet

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Not yet. I've been a bit busier than usual the last couple of weeks. The computer upgrade plan has not been permanently derailed, just postponed.

quote:

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I had a go with Photoshop on a !.8 G5 today with PS - I was most impressed at the response

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Yeah, seems Apple finally got it (mostly) right with the G5 towers -- all the benefits of running a Mac, with the speed of a proper PC.


_______________________________________________


Stephen,

quote:

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No, I was being honest. I assume you've seen the last series (especially the last few episodes)? Genre TV at its best IM (and many others) HO.

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Yes, I saw the entire series -- I watch it mostly because of misplaced loyalty to the Star Trek franchise -- but my honest opinion is that Enterprise is the worst spin-off yet. I'm sorry, but it seems that whenever the show's ratings plummet or the show's writers have written themselves into a corner they work T'Pol's boobs into the plot hoping that no one will notice the show's flaws -- her boobies, of course, not being one of them. Not that T&A is a problem per se, but a solid story line and boobies are not mutually exclusive.

Joe

Joe

We'll have to agree to disagree then!



Regards

Stephen

The monitor arrived yesterday and the tower o' dual processing power came in today. I haven't played with either yet, but the IT guy at work offered to connect the computer to the Net to download the software updates, easily 50+ MBs worth.

Mark E-J, really *really* glad you pointed out that the computer will attempt to download any updates if it sees a Net connection because I wouldn't have wanted to try this at home.

Joe, who's still dialling up with a modem... for a while longer