The US election

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Originally posted by Bruce Woodhouse:
So who would like to bet on the candidates for the NEXT election?

Hilary Clinton vs Arnie?

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My bet is Hilary Clinton vs Condoleezza Rice and a guaranteed female president of the USA.

Steve M

What an odd day.

I'm finding it very hard not to see America in terms of two groups - one (the colder states and coasts) an inspiring fusion of cultures sharing liberal ideals, and the other (down the middle of the country) a scared mob of yokels, tycoons and religious fundamentalists.

The second group, which has apparently 'prevailed' today, strikes me as having an awful lot in common with the profile of some of the countries it seeks to label as the 'axis of evil'.

The 'war on terror' is reminding me more and more of the cold war. Two 'sides', apparently unable to coexist, and apparently unconscious of how similar their people are.

If I thought the majority were interested in learning lessons from history, I might've been shocked by America's election result. Instead, I just feel a dull sort of chronic ache.

So bring back the wartime president, bring back the God-fearing patriots, bring back those ready to protect us from our enemies. Let the end justify the means.

I'll be in the bar.

Meanwhile...

Here in Washington state, the governor's race is a cliffhanger. It may not be decided for a few days. I can't imagine Washington with a Republican governor. That would be weird.

Erik,

Your country's just re-elected Bush, so to be quite honest, anything's possible.

jon

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Originally posted by AlexG:
Am I right in thinking that the result hasn't been declared yet?

Is there still hope?

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According to Associated Press Kerry's just rung Bush to concede.

jon

Well then that is it. I'll leave you boys to it. Some nice work here.

Jim

Good

That will wipe the smile off some condescending faces.

Regards

Mick

I like the American people and refuse to consider that the middle-Americans are stupid. I am aware now that there are greater differences between us than I had previously thought.
Let's just see what the new agenda is.

7V - "My bet is Hilary Clinton vs Condoleezza Rice and a guaranteed female president of the USA."
Not unlikely. Condoleezza Rice is at least a serious politician.

jlfrs has it right in that the French don't loathe Bush any more than the rest of the world. In fact in recent months I have come across the opinion that the French and Germans were fairly keen on a Bush win as they have no desire to shed blood in Iraq helping to dig the US and it's business interests out of a hole, and they wouldn't have wanted to refuse Kerry's call to internationalize the Iraq situation.

Steve, sorry, I certainly didn't intend to cause offence with my post. I simply think that we all have equal rights and shouldn't constantly be told to shut up when we express certain views. Why did you single out that quote? If anything, surely that was the most innocuous statement.

Looking forward to exchange rates of $3:£1.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
The Hi-Fi Doctor

So Mick, I'm guessing no answer on how my attitude contributed to Kerry losing the election

It might come off some very slow witted condescending faces but it'll go right back on the faces of a lot of nutters who have the means to really hurt us.

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Originally posted by Rasher:
Not unlikely. Condoleezza Rice is at least a serious politician.

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Sorry, Rasher, but that also falls into the "greater differences than you previously thought" category. The Republicans will not select a black female (who also happens to be incompetent and lacking the support of her own department).

Anyway, it's going to be a long four years, my friend.

Davie

Oh for God's sake Tom, stop whinging, it's all water under the bridge, what's done is done, the future's bright. Christ help us all

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Originally posted by bigmick:
...Why did you single out that quote? If anything, surely that was the most innocuous statement.

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I may well have misunderstood you, bigmick but you know me. My political philosophy veers from Karl Marx to Atilla the Hun but I would have voted for Jessica Tate (from Soap). I just want everyone to play nicely together.

Steve M

Bigmick

Ok you asked so I will tell you.

If you flick through this thread from the begining, the attitude of the pro Dems is that they are intellectually superior to the rednecks who voted for Bush. The Bush supporters are labelled as thick and uninformed throughout this entire thread.

I get called thick because I support Bush. The comments are all on view.

Your comments projected an imaged of "I am considerably cleverer than you" and that becomes a turnoff for the undecided.

The Dems are like our Liberals, all knowledge and little common sense. That is why the "clever" guys usually loose elections...no one likes a smug and clever pontificating you know what.


Regards

Mick

Tom

I am not clever and smug....I am a thick Bush supporter.

Regards

Mick

Last week bin Laden stated publicly that his goal was to bankrupt the US. Over the past four years, Bush has taken the country great strides towards granting bin Laden's wishes. Last night, a majority of Americans said, "Yes. We like this. We think this is the way to go. We want more of this."

Osama's happy, Bush is happy, most Americans are happy. It's a glorious day.

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I get called thick because I support Bush.

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Granted, its in the top 100.

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Originally posted by AlexG:

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The Republicans will not select a black female

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Because?

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Because she's black and female.

Davie

Chaps

I see the DOW index went through the 10000 mark.

The markets like the decision and what is good for the markets is generally good for us all.

Time to cheer up methinks.

Regards

Mick

But who cares about all that ? This is the evolution of the world. Extremism extracts extrem anti-extremism.
America behaves as a kid, you know, it's ok. Sometimes it makes the world worry, sometimes laugh, this is it, watch it like a drama "We all love America".
In years some will be even more worried when America is a teen. You know, smoking the chlorophyll, driving nuts'pace ships, running away ... from earth, making Mars their 246 state, claiming the solar system is theirs, ruling the Univers with a famous "In US we trust"
"Oh my God" (choose your own smiley)

Going back to bed, I got some extra dreams to do.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mick Parry:
I am not clever and smug....I am a thick Bush supporter.

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Yes, Mick. Quite right.

You are.

Well it's a sad day for all liberals. One Rebublican spokesman said that with a victory Bush would try even harder to reach across lines. HA! what a lot of BS. Bush will rip and run with impunity. But it seems Democrat fortunes are receeding as house and senate are both strongly Republican. And what's worse is that Bush has the opportunity of selecting several Supreme Court Justices. UGH!

I'm going to go sulk for a while.

Life is analogue, enjoy it while you can.

Hy there!yesterday moores 9/11 was first time
in austrian tv. It was a moovie that was seen
by very many people ,similar to the first moon landing in 1968.
My impression:think its an intresting ,cynical,ironical
peace of cabaret that make people to think over
the true truths of politics.What it was not
imo:A perfect earnest documentation without eyetwinker effect.And this is what i do not like and moore should feel guilty about having done:the pure(poor)sensational reproduction of
pictures of war.Think it is not nessecarry and
with the cinycal text it was a kind of "placative"show effect.i am a great admirer
of the vienam movies of stone or coppola but
i think the difference lies in their sensational" Ketchup war scenes"(everybody knew that they were unreal,while moore uses real scenes to make his film "realistic"means more sensational and last not least more profitable
for him (moore)and harvey Weinstein(producer.

I ve heared one hour ago that Bush is now the
New (and old)president of usa.W hat i feel curious about:why did the most "big businness" states on the east coast vote for Kerry? if i wear business man in usa iwould see the only (possible)chance for economic recreation of usa
in iraks Oil.thisv was allways bushs target.
think most people who wanted vote for kerry are against that irak war.But how do they think
to come out of the economic dilemma without the oil?they gave themself the answer.they saw n o chance,the voted for the only(of course smalland theoretical,and not even really sympathic chance:they voted for bush.
i try to see this from an objective point of
view.i am not allowed to vote in usa,and where
i live i go only to an pesidential election
if i feel sure who is the better choice.otherwise i would stay at home and think
those who vote have their reason whom to choose.
maybe there are people in usa who think the same (would like to have Kerry but are not sure
if he is the right choice)
O.J.(hoping my bad english does not destroy or alternate the contents of my post )

Well Mick, first off I appreciate you taking the trouble to reply. AFAIK today is the first time I've commented on this thread and I don't consider myself pro Dem, just deeply critical of many of the policies of the Bush administration and the well documented manipulation and use of the evangelical vote, particularly in the Midwest. I‘ve made countless trips to the US in the last 20 years and I have to say that since 2001 my trips have increasingly been made reluctantly and with a heavy heart as, infuriating immigration officials aside, I have sensed a change in the demeanour of people, a tension. I happen to believe that many of yesterday’s voters were impressionable and scared witless into voting for Bush because of the racking up of this terrorist threat by the administration. That bin Laden and Islamic extremists worldwide are the prime beneficiaries of the Bush victory is beyond question and the timing of his video was perfect. My observations weren’t intended as intellectual or condescending, they are simply what I believe based on what I’ve read, heard and experienced.

Statistically, a fair percentage of the Republican vote isn’t educated beyond high school and very few post graduates vote Republican, but this a fact rather than an issue. Bush & Co. played on this and worked hard to engender this reverse snobbery, to make it a “them and us” situation. Do you really think, given Bush’s background, that he is a genuinely “folksy” person? Do you really think that Cheney, Rummy, Perle, Wolfowitz would like nothing better than hanging at a monster truck rally in Georgia or attending an evangelical workshop in Georgia with their sworn voters? Do you really believe that these are all baccy-chewing thickos and the Dems condescending geniuses? To play into these stereotypes is yet again to succumb to the strategy of the Bush administration. It’s so easy to claim that someone is condescending when they lay out a cogent argument, with supporting facts, which debunks what you want to believe, what your guy wants you to believe. That’s what Bush did. The neocons don’t care if you’re smart or not as long as you’re impressionable, resistant to change and scornful of anything which isn’t “on message”.

I don’t know if you read this brilliant piece from the NYT that Davie referenced http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=67019385&f=58019385&m=509104693&p=1. It shows that Bush is refining this conflict, now categorizing the battle as between those reality based communities, who make decisions based on empiricism and discernible reality (this is anyone who doesn’t unquestionably support Bush and inherently bad) and the faith based community, who make decisions based purely on instinct and divine inspiration (this is anyone unquestionably supports Bush and inherently good). If this was some mudflat former Soviet state it might end up on Eurotrash for it’s comedic value. But when the leader of the only superpower is spurning facts and expert advice in favour of tea leaf readings or Charismatic tongues then I don’t care how dumb or smart you are, you surely have to think, “Shitbags! Did we just give that asshole Robin the keys to the Batmobile?..…..And did you smell the liquor on his breath?”

Steve, I’ve realised that perhaps you thought I was inviting Mick to throw himself under the wheels of a bus for the good of this thread and the forum. I could imagine that would be unpleasant.

I was in fact recalling a recent thread which, only because I never have to travel the A420, made me laugh out loud and realise that no matter how many people he infuriates and pisses off on this forum, he surely comes no closer to a good old-fashioned group kicking than he does on that drive.

Mick Parry said:

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1. The road on which I drive (A420 Swindon to Oxford) is literally single lane all the way with a heavy flow of traffic both ways. Overtaking is impossible. You can only travel as fast as the car in front of you.

Therefore by restricting my speed to 49 mph, I am controlling everyone elses speed and they CANNOT overtake.

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You simply couldn’t make this stuff up.