The US election

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Originally posted by Mick Parry:
You are the one moaning about the democratically elected leader.......not me.

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He was not elected. He was selected by five court justices who put aside their sworn duty, and simply voted twice.

Shrub has a lead in the polls because, sad to say, we're a country of utter tools. A recent poll showed a majority of Americans thought Iraq was behind 9/11, not Bin Laden.

You got to give Duh-w credit for capitalizing on this national stupidity. Repeat the lie over and over with increasing belligerency, and enough people will believe it. Hey, why not? It worked for Hitler.

Honest to God, every reThuglican I've run into, who supports Duh-w and/or the war in general, gave me reasons that were factually just flat out wrong.

Do you have soccer moms in Cadillac Escalades with "W '04" stickers where you are? I'm getting sick of seeing those. And they're on V8-powered SUVs 80% of the time. Fitting, as those I've met who claim to be Republicans seem happy with the state of the world as long as an Escalade's in the driveway, a flat-screen's on the living room wall, and junior's college fund's stashed away. Me, me, fucking me!!!!

</Pre-weekend rant>

Ludwig,

Here they have a "W" sticker on the back window of the Escalade. On the bumper, they have a sticker that says: "Warning: In case of Rapture, this vehicle will be unoccupied".

I'm just trying to make you feel better.

Eric

Please be kidding about the sticker on the bumper. Please be kidding. Please.

Chaps

If you guys are typical opponents of Bush...he is going to walk it.

Keep up the whinging chaps.

Mick

Mick,

You keep your eyes closed and ears plugged in your unaffected, cozy corner of the world like a good little controllable citizen would.

That, or read a book.

Typical sneering, pompous condescending anti Bush drivel which will allow him to win the election.

Regards

Mick

Typicial, repetitive, unsubstantiated drivel from someone who doesn't have a clue how the emotions and actions of the left base will affect the forthcoming US election.

You make these hollow remarks but note that anytime anyone's countered or questioned your position, you've run away or re-stated your hollow remark.

Mick:

You are contributing nothing to this discussion. Stating the blindingly obvious (the American voters will decide etc etc) is not profound. It barely even qualifies as an observation.

You know nothing about the issues or the process in this country. I doubt if you've even bothered to read this thread, or you'd know that most US-based contributors seem to think Bush will win - but not for the reasons you probably imagine. I doubt if you read ANY of the threads on which you pontificate.

Then again, I'm not convinced you exist. You are either i) a very clever, anarchic wind-up, or ii) a damn fool (and there's no fool like an old 'un).

Regards,
Davie

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Typical sneering, pompous condescending anti Bush drivel which will allow him to win the election.

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Mick, why?

As is becoming usual, you only give insults and derision instead of arguments. It's gotten repetative and pathetic. Why trouble yourself reading this? Go away if we bother you and do something fun.

Ludwig,

I'm afraid to say that I think we need to start taking seriously the possibility that Bush's success is being driven by a much more widespread hatred of Arabs and Muslims among many Americans than we might want to admit. Although few will give direct expression to it, I suspect that many Americans may just be willing to give their vote to whomever is most likely to kill Arabs in the Middle East, and that means Bush. Obviously I hope this little hypothesis is wrong, but if true it does explain a couple of things, such as why many Americans don't seem interested in learning the facts about the relation of terrorists to Iraq (despite the widely pulblicised evidence), and why they refuse to condemn the war despite the obvious failure of its stated aims and the collapse of its justification.

We have to remember too that many of Bush's core constituents are fundamentalists who honestly believe that a war with the forces of Satan in Israel is immanent; all of the stuff in Iraq is seen as a prelude to this. I don't know how widespread this attitude is, but maybe more than we think?

Pessmistically,
Eric

Chaps

I am being deadly serious when I say that your biggest mistake is that you are projecting an image of ..."we are more intelligent than the average redneck voter and know what is good for the world because we are more clever and educated".

Even if Iraq was a mistake (which is wasn't), you have to realise that the worst thing you can do is to drone on about it.

I would imagine, most Americans want the Iraqi elections to take place and then pull out asap.

Your approach seems to be constant critical analysis which is a voter turn off.

It will not so much be a case of Bush winning himself, but you doing it for him.

The Kerry campaign needs to refocus and quickly because from where I am sitting, he is walking into defeat.

Regards

Mick

quote:

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Mick,

You keep your eyes closed and ears plugged in your unaffected, cozy corner of the world like a good little controllable citizen would.

That, or read a book.

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To clarify (as I fear it was lost) what I meant, Mick, is that you often take a position that it's easier and thus somehow better to not be concerned with the issues facing one's nation. It's a position I imagine I'm not alone in not comprehending. Reading a book, one might see that there's a way to life other than that they've been spoon-fed.

I wasn't trying to sound superior in any way. I got where I am from hard work, not world-beating smarts.

Meanwhile...

Kerry's been talking about pulling our troops out within 6 months. Then I read a story in the NYT (I think?) that White House insiders say if Bush is re-elected he plans to pull all troops out in his next term. Hmmm, if true and if he says so in the debates Kerry's position is a bit lost.

The article also mentioned Rice as Sec State and Wolfowitz as Sec Def, a possibility I (and Iran, and N Korea, and the world) find absolutely frightening. "The American Century" will be full steam ahead.

Ludwig,

What does "in his next term" mean? It could be anything from the first week to the subsequent 4 years! At least Kerry's 6 months sounds (to me at least) a bit more definite by comparison.

As for Wolfowitz, I completely agree. He was after all one of the neocon scumbags who drove the Iraq invasion from the very start.

BTW I just want to acknowledge you, Randall and Eric for being so frank about your own country. It must be galling for all of you to feel the way you do but just to let you know you do have sympathetic ears this side of the pond - we don't all live in Swindon you know!

Regards,

JonR

No idea what "next term" means there JonR, but I fear the US population may see no difference, and think- "ah: solution!".

Not to worry about us Americans- I'm going to organize a commune near Vancouver where ejl, Bhoyo, Judd, and I can smoke some killer weed, wear Birkenstocks, listen to folk records, catch some massive salmon, and grow our own tomatos and basil.

quote:

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I am being deadly serious when I say that your biggest mistake is that you are projecting an image of ..."we are more intelligent than the average redneck voter and know what is good for the world because we are more clever and educated".

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Mick,

I think you're right that this kind of insecurity plays a role in some, and perhaps many, voter's minds. But even if you were entirely right and critizing Bush led to his certain victory, I wouldn't stop, and wouldn't want others to.

Pandering to an insecure electorate by refusing to debate or criticize an existing administration would, in the long run, be far more disasterous than four more years of GWB. A look at some of history's worst tyrants, how they came to power and how they ruled, convinces me of that.

Eric

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Originally posted by Ludwig:
Not to worry about us Americans- I'm going to organize a commune near Vancouver where ejl, Bhoyo, Judd, and I can smoke some killer weed, wear Birkenstocks, listen to folk records, catch some massive salmon, and grow our own tomatos and basil.

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Aaah yes of course - the solution to all your problems:- flee to Canada!!

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Originally posted by Ludwig:
Not to worry about us Americans- I'm going to organize a commune near Vancouver where ejl, Bhoyo, Judd, and I can smoke some killer weed, wear Birkenstocks, listen to folk records, catch some massive salmon, and grow our own tomatos and basil.

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Don't even think about it. I'd have to kick your hippy ass back across the border

quote:

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Originally posted by Ludwig:
Meanwhile...

Kerry's been talking about pulling our troops out within 6 months. Then I read a story in the NYT (I think?) that White House insiders say if Bush is re-elected he plans to pull all troops out in his next term. Hmmm, if true and if he says so in the debates Kerry's position is a bit lost.

The article also mentioned Rice as Sec State and Wolfowitz as Sec Def, a possibility I (and Iran, and N Korea, and the world) find absolutely frightening. "The American Century" will be full steam ahead.

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Bob Novak quoted White-house insiders (anonamously, of course) in an article earlier in the week (published in the Chicago Tribune, as I recall) who suggested that Bush was going to pull much of the force out of Iraq "shortly" after the election. I thought this was somewhat of a "bombshell", but it hasn't been picked up by CNN or any of the other legitimate outlets, and so one of two possabilities arises (1) that Novak simply got it wrong, or (2) that the idea was merely being floated as a "trial baloon" by the Bush administration to guage sentiment. In that cae, Novak is being played by the Administration.

To hell with Vancouver, the wife and I are moving to Northern Canada as soon as money (and my education) permits. Besides, I don't know how to inhale.

Judd

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Originally posted by Ludwig:
Fuck it dudes, let's go bowling.

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OK - just as soon as we get through hurricane No. 4!

Regards,
Davie

The latest indication that it's over: polls are now showing Bush moving ahead of Kerry among women ("Soccer Moms" '96 = "Security Moms" '04). The Dems assumed they had a lock on women up to their 40's or so; well, the Soccer Moms have aged a bit, gotten more stuff, and care more about not having their kids killed in a Chechen-style middle-school massacre then they do about abortion rights. Plus, as women do, they've married (or tried to, depending on their looks) succesful men, who tend to be Republican. Most couples vote identically.

Another observation: Post-mortems on past elections show that a lot of undecided voters, close to the election, will just vote for whomever's ahead in the polls; translation: Americans like to vote for the winner.

Let's face it, the current gestalt favours Bush & the R's; Karl Rove is smiling, because he knows Kerry is just a speed-bump on the way to the American Imperial Republic.

re: inhaling - as it turns out, Clinton wasn't lying when he said he didn't inhale; an acquaintance of his at Oxford revealed that Bubba had his hash in...brownies.

Hey!!! It just occurred to me that NO candidates are courting US...the all-important audiophile vote.

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Originally posted by bhazen:
Hey!!! It just occurred to me that NO candidates are courting US...the all-important _audiophile_ vote.

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I bet they thought of it but then decided not enough people read Stereophile to make it worth the effort!

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Originally posted by Patrick Dixon:
If the Iraqis were allowed the democracy that you constantly espouse, they would vote for an Islamic regime.

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Patrick,

On what basis do you make this statement?

Steve

Inhale..Bush...C'mon guys, there's another joke in there somewhere..