The US election

Bigmick

That is the attitude that helped Kerry lose the election.

It appears to be over, so accept it with good grace. The American people have made their decision.....it is over for another four years.

If you don't like the result then tough.

Regards

Mick

Mick, you really should move to Texas. You can drive a huge car, throw away more food each day than Africa eats, no longer have to care where the hell Holand or Denmark are, shoot whatever you like with all your guns, and, after a while, vote Republican.

Alex

What I would like is for the British to become more like the Americans. I admire their energy, patriotism and go getting attitude.

Contrast that with the incessent moaning you get over here.

Regards

Mick

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Originally posted by Markus Sauer:
I'm absolutely sure Bush will win.

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Told you so.

Boycott America?

Truly incomprehensible.

Clinton lied about shagging his secretary and there were impeachment proceedings. Bush lies in order to wage war and thus destabilise the entire world and gets (re)elected.
Beyond belief.

I wonder if the French will now boycott all things American (where there is anything approaching choice)? I am going to try to. I only hope we survive the next four years without Bush either bankrupting his country or causing an even worse situation in the middle-east, Korea or even China. Bin Laden is probably laughing like a hyena.

I wonder if Mick's seen Farenheit 9/11; watching Bush in that classroom wondering what on earth to do as golf is cancelled for the foreseeable. . .

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Originally posted by Roy T:
The true winners are all those who registered for the first time and then voted, a larger voter base bodes well for future elections.

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Yeah, my thoughts aswell, Roy. Whether Rep or Dem, good to see the electorate taking part in the process. I'll be interested to see the repercussions of the "interference" that has/has not been taking place - voter challenges, missing ballot papers etc.

I'm also not too cool with insulting a section of U.S. citizens either. I'm incredibly smart, but I couldn't tell you where every single US state capital is located.

Personally, I cannot understand how GWB is not facing a prison sentence rather than a second term. I find it extrordinarily depressing. But that's just my opinion, I didn't get a vote.

Brian

Yes we should no more draw despicable conclusions about Americans -- in my experience an almost universally decent and friendly people -- on the basis of Bush, Wolfowitz, Rove, etc. than Americans should judge the British on the basis of Mick Parry.

Matthew

I respect Americans for their pride in their country, their strength in the world, their belief in democracy, and the general goodness of the people.
Their politics however (not normally, but today), leave me completely mystified. I cannot understand how the American public can vote Bush in again, unless the average middle-American has no idea at all of global politics and their current situation. I would like to see a good argument as to why Bush is back for another 4 years. There must be a reason that I haven't considered - you don't get a result from that many people like this otherwise.
I beleive that this is The Padded Cell, and this is a thread on the US Elections. That is what we are discussing here Mick, so if you don't want to hear it, maybe you should find another thread on something else.

Rasher

I am not unwilling to listen to anything but the main point is that the American people have made their choice and I was saying this 6 months ago.

The main thing is that we now need to get on with GWB, increase trade etc etc. That is what life is about.

There is no point in moaning about the result, it is over.

Regards

Mick

I also wonder how things will shape out in February when we have UK elections and Howard may be PM, or Blair changes his policy on Iraq in order to get re-elected. That may put GWB in a position that he hasn't found himself in before. ie. Alone.

I'm with you Rasher. I guess that the answer can only be that the American people did not like the alternative. After all, for similar reasons it seems a virtual certainty that Blair will be re-elected in Britain.

This place wouldn't be the same without Mick. I enjoy his bigoted nonsense every so often.

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I cannot understand how the American public can vote Bush in again, unless the average middle-American has no idea at all of global politics and their current situation.
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In times of trouble American's stick to what they know. Bush is the "safe" option. Kerry is an unknown quantity.

Most American's are so isolated they havn't got a clue whats happening outside of their country. They place their trust in their leader without realising he is the biggest terrorist on the planet!



Regards


NB

Rasher

Blair will get re elected, even if he suggested bombing the rest of the world.

The plain reality is that he has no effective competition.

I am a dye in the wool Tory, but no way am I going to vote for Howard and the bunch of second raters who call themselves a shadow cabinet. They are useless.

Blair is as good as there, even today. Not nice but a fact.

Regards

Mick

Well FWIW I think the result comes from a combination of three things:-

1) The 'I don't give a damn what the rest of the world thinks, Bush is watching over my house' mentality of most, probably mid-West based Americans; and

2) Bin Laden's timely intervention, cleverly spooking large sections of the population into believing that Dubya is saving them from the doings of evil terrorist networks, etc.

3) The astonishing insularity of a country which calls itself the world's only super-power.

You want a debate? How's that for starters?

jon

Mick said "I was saying this 6 months ago"

Yes, you were also saying that after we had carpet bombed Iraq we'd all be wallowing in millions of gallons of exteremely cheap oil.

Matthew

I'll chime in here for a moment...
I believe that Bush won (that is unless they have a highly unlikely result when the provisional votes are counted in Ohio) solely on the great moral divide this country is going through.
It seems that people here are having a harder time separating their religion with their state, even though our biggest threat to peace (not counting North Korea) mixes a radical interpretation of their religion with an unstable but highly (US) funded govenrment.
Most of us in the US are not throwing food from our gas-guzzling SUV while shooting everything that moves and voting Republican by absentee, at least not most of the time.
But there are many that are sick of the moral decline that Western culture seems to be experiencing.
There is a move afoot for supressing the "Hollywood Culture" and the Republican base is highly offended by the ties that the Democrats have to pop culture.
There also seems to be a growing isolationist attitude where we don't really care what the French think (actually prefer if they are insulted) and REALLY don't care what other countries want us to do about our election.
GWB has ridden a wave of moral indignation and the Republicans have out manuevered and out smarted the Democrats again. The Dems are unable to organize themselves effectively, never have been able to do so, and will not likely do so in the future.
The most interesting development is that now Hillary Clinton is a viable Dem choice in 2008. She may or may not be qualified for this office, I can't tell from all the hype. But I'm certain of one thing: This will further divide the country and bring about no good for us or the rest of the world.
As I've said before, no matter the outcome America will, for the most part, accept the decision of the voters (or the courts interpreting the voters as in last time) and try to make the best of it. No bloodshed, no riots, mimimal corruption (can't be helped, there are always rats in the pantry), but clean, orderly and fair to the extent possible allowed by law and tradition.
I'll take this system over any other on the planet.
Happy Re-Counting,
David

Like David just said I think a lot of this result had to do with religion.

In recent days I had several conversations with Bush voters down here. The phrase they kept using was that they had to "Vote their faith" (I'm guessing this phrase was used in a lot of church pulpits). When I asked why they couldn't vote their faith with Kerry, they brought up abortion. I think the abortion issue is part of the story but not all of it.

The surprising thing to me talking with these people was that they freely admitted that the war in Iraq was a mistake, and all but one admitted that Bush had done a poor job on issues like health care and the economy.

Anyway, we and the rest of the world will now continue to live with the consequences of "voting one's faith".

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Originally posted by NB:
Most American's are so isolated they havn't got a clue whats happening outside of their country.

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Montana has a land mass 50% greater than the UK with a population of less than 1 million. I can understand the isolation of farmers and the general view that national or world politics seem too far away from everyday small community living. I can also understand that small communities like this can be very protective of their own and defensive, untrusting of the unknown and therefore leaning towards the right wing. It is fully understandable I suppose.

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Bigmick

That is the attitude that helped Kerry lose the election.

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Your reply rather underscores my earlier reference to your intellectual impoverishment. I expressed an opinion as is my right. Can you identify what attitude you are referring to and if you are seriously attributing in any way, the outcome of the US election to my attitude, can you surprise me and please explain how this is so?

It is simply embarrassing to have you stumble like a drunken hobbit across these boards, failing on any thread to offer any compelling analysis or opinion with supporting facts, yet utterly obsessed with denigrating the valid, lucid and supportable opinions of others and their rights in this regard. I don't know of any forum outside of a prep school yard where it is appropriate to counter any opinion by repeatedly telling people to "shut up" and "if you don't like it, tough". Is this really the extent of your reasoning and debate?

The Padded Room isn’t just a display case for parading one’s inventory of accumulated luxury items, it’s also a valuable forum for the discussion of matters both whimsical and serious. Your stock negative response to any analysis of matters which you disapprove is either:
1. Shut up! Your whinging won’t have any effect on what is going to happen.
2. Shut up! It’s already happening and there’s no point whinging about it.
3. Shut up! It’s over and there’s no point whinging.
Obviously there’s a smattering of “pathetics” and “pinkos” in there and whatever big word the Daily Mail is using that week. It’s a limited vocabulary, an even more limited viewpoint, yet even though I find your contributions tedious as f**k, I don’t think that you should shut up, I respect your right to shite on and just wish that you’d afford others the same respect.

We learn from discussing and listening to other people’s take on the rights and wrongs of current events and history, and if we don’t we are doomed to see mistakes repeated. I don’t want to see another 9/11, another Iraq with it’s attendant lies and scandals, increasing anti-US loathing, environmental disaster yet we take your advice to shut up, always accept the status quo, bury our heads in the sand and that’s exactly what happens. Your insidious attempts to shout down such debate are depressing and puerile and you won’t be surprised to hear that I, for one, shall be ignoring your requests to shut up.

A lot of other people here seem keen to talk about this so why don’t you give us all a well-earned break whilst you nip out and slow up some free-flowing traffic.

It needed to be said....and Bigmick said it ver well

Bigmick

Please continue to moan about the results of the election, like you said, it is your right to do so.

I shall continue to support the majority of the American electorate (who are thickos like me) who have voted for Bush.

I suppose we have between us proven the old adage that the Republican voters think they have the moral high ground and that the Democratic voters think they are the most intelligent.

They are probably both wrong.

Regards

Mick

quote:

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Originally posted by Rasher:
Montana has a land mass 50% greater than the UK with a population of less than 1 million. I can understand the isolation of farmers and the general view that national or world politics seem too far away from everyday small community living. I can also understand that small communities like this can be very protective of their own and defensive, untrusting of the unknown and therefore leaning towards the right wing. It is fully understandable I suppose.

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This doesn't explain Mick Perry though.



Stephen

Quote from NaimDropper:

"There also seems to be a growing isolationist attitude where we don't really care what the French think (actually prefer if they are insulted) and REALLY don't care what other countries want us to do about our election."

Speaking as someone who has visited the U.S frequently since 1997 I have seen this trend markedly develop since 9/11 - it's all too clear with the way I'm treated in the Customs Halls and what I hear whilst in the back of cabs and in bars.
I think one of the reasons for this is the sheer inability of the U.S to secure it's borders and the growing realisation that it's a culture founded on other cultures.Will the next attack come from outside or within? This I believe was realised with some embarrassment when it was found the U.S had actually trained some of the 9/11 highjackers.
However, having an "isolationist" attitude is all very well and good if the U.S goes about it's policies on it's own. Therefore, to answer those people who think that non-American citizens should "butt out", I say you can't have it both ways.
As for the French, it may come as some surprise to many Americans that they really don't care the U.S thinks that they're the party poopers.In fact, I don't think the French really care what anyone thinks about their actions - if they want to test nuclear weapons, ban Burkas and not back a U.S led war then so be it.
The U.S.A is a superpower which likes to take an active interest in other countries' affairs and intervene where necessary,(UN backing doesn't matter either): recognise that the rest of the world is aware,(because it's involved). and is therefore taking an active interest in who's going to be potentially influencing our future, be it directly or indirectly.

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Originally posted by BLT:
It needed to be said....and Bigmick said it ver well

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Originally posted by Bigmick:
A lot of other people here seem keen to talk about this so why don’t you give us all a well-earned break whilst you nip out and slow up some free-flowing traffic.

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Personally, I find this sort of talk quite unpleasant.

Steve M