So exactly who are the middle classes?
Posted by: Roy T on 18 October 2004
Something to mull over while as parties advertise their economic policies prior to the next election.
CONFUSING FORMULAE THAT MUDDY THE WATERS OF THE FISCAL DEBATE
By Vanessa Houlder
Published: October 18 2004 03:00 | Last updated: October 18 2004 03:00
CONFUSING FORMULAE THAT MUDDY THE WATERS OF THE FISCAL DEBATE
So exactly who are the middle classes? The most shocking fact for many people is that average incomes are much lower than we often think, writes Vanessa Houlder. Depending on whether economists choose individuals or households, net or gross income, the average - defined by the mean or the median - and a subset or the whole population, they can define "average income" as anything between £9,800 and £42,200. This ambiguity is at the heart of the debate about the middle-class tax burden. Do the terms "middle class" and "middle Britain" refer to people who are averagely well-off? Or do they refer to a more affluent group: people who are close to or above the £36,165 threshold for higher rate tax? Politicians and commentators tend to use the latter, according to an Institute for Fiscal Studies briefing paper by Matthew Wakefield. "The residents of middle Britain are often explicitly or implicitly identified as those on the fringe of being higher-rate income taxpayers, or richer . . As a matter of fact, higher-rate taxpayers do not generally come from the middle of the income distribution but are drawn almost exclusively from the top third and mainly from the richest tenth." This confusion may arise because politicians and journalists using the term "middle classes" simply over-estimate the income of the majority of the public. But misconceptions about the income distribution also arise because the average income - defined by dividing total income by the number of people - is skewed by the relatively small number of people receiving very large incomes. Under this definition, somebody on an average income would be richer than two-thirds of the population, according to the IFS. But the picture changes if the analysis is restricted to households with at least one full-time worker. By excluding many pensioners and other poor households, the median gross household income rises from £21,700 to £33,000. Another possible justification for using the term "middle class" to describe people whose average income approaches that of higher-rate taxpayers is that this loosely tallies with the definition of market researchers. Pollsters typically define the middle classes as the "ABC1s" whose occupations range from solicitors to salesmen. This type of classification could also justify another use of the term middle Britain: the social groups C1 and C2, which are in the middle of the socio-economic groupings. These skilled non-manual and manual workers, often seen as important swing voters, have a median gross household income of about £27,000. However justified, these differing interpretations of "the middle" muddy the waters of the debate about tax. But as the arguments over Labour's tax policies get more heated in the run-up to the next general election, there is little prospect that politicians and commentators will agree on a single definition.
CONFUSING FORMULAE THAT MUDDY THE WATERS OF THE FISCAL DEBATE By Vanessa HoulderPosted on: 19 October 2004 by The mole man
Excellent post and I wish this conundrum could be solved. It really shouldn't be that difficult but political expediency coupled with the delusion that "we're all middle class now aren't we?" will probably combine to ensure that isn't anytime soon.
Mole Man
Posted on: 19 October 2004 by BigH47
"All people are born middle class but some are more middle class than others" or words to that effect.
H
Posted on: 19 October 2004 by Roy T
quote:
"we're all middle class now aren't we?"
Throughly agree, as people who have reached the middle class promissed land may now feel free to bask in the "I'm better than you" afterglow whilst turning a newly blinded eye towards any failings (be it under Tory or New Labour) of those in power.
Is the middle class the share owning (the value of your shares may go up or down), house owing (your equity may increase, decrease or disappear), pension owning (your pension may be under funded, linked to the stock market or plundered) democoracy started by Thatcher and supported by New Labour?
I suspect it is just a state of mind.
Posted on: 19 October 2004 by Steve Toy
The Middle Classes are everyone who is worse off financially under New Labour.
This government has learnt that they can't tax the very rich too much as this would be tantamount to a transfer (albeit indirect) of the means of production from private to state control, under which it would simply be flushed down the toilet.
Ordinary mortals are the ones picking up the bill for Big and Expensive Government and not the very rich.
The Middle Classes are basically those not on benefits or very low incomes.
Regards,
Steve.
Posted on: 19 October 2004 by Jez Quigley
Didn't Karl Marx write the book on this?
(Das Kapital). If I remember correctly he said that there were only two main classes - those that owned capital and the means of production, and those that sold their 'labour power' to them - the proletarians. The so-called middle classes were the strata of society who carried out duties in the service of the capitalists (such as management, judges etc) and who aspired to owning their own property/capital. Definitions/ideas about who is/is not middle class have become muddied with the passage of time, but the distinction between the owners of capital/means of production and the rest of us remains valid.
Steve, I don't follow your argument. I was born into a working class family and I am MUCH better off under this Labour Gov. So what does that make me? If the Duke of Westminster is less rich by a fraction (even though he owns 'half' of central London) than he was under Thatcher does that make him middle class?
Posted on: 19 October 2004 by Alex S.
The middle classes are the people who think Michael Palin's Himalayas is the best programme ever.
Posted on: 19 October 2004 by Jez Quigley
Posted on: 19 October 2004 by sideshowbob
The middle classes are the rude, irritating, braying f*ckwits who don't know how to queue properly at Heals' checkout.
More seriously, Marx had it right.
-- Ian
(edit for typo)
Posted on: 19 October 2004 by Deane F
Marx lived in the age of the true capitalists and robber barons. Nowadays there are few true capitalists, by which I mean individuals who entirely own and control the capital/means of production.
One of the most obvious of those few true capitalists was, until recently, Bill Gates. It will be noted that he didn't own a private jet until he started to lose the absolute control over his own company - instead he flew economy class. Now Microsoft has private jets.
Most corporations are now controlled by groups of "managers" who have less financial and emotional investment in the company and more interest in how they benefit from the control. In the 1950's on average the highest paid employee of a company earned twelve times the amount earned by the lowest paid employee. By the 1980's the highest paid earned sixty times the lowest paid. John Ralston Saul (author of "Voltaires Bastards") calls these managers the "courtesan" class. I refer to his figures.
I see the world in terms of Naim because I am obsessed:
Upper Class:
552/500/DBL or NBL
Middle Class:
252 282 SCap/ 300 250/ SL2 SBL
Lower Middle:
202 112x Flatcap/ 200 150 / Ariva
Lower:
Nait 3 (me)
Deane
Posted on: 19 October 2004 by sideshowbob
quote:
Marx lived in the age of the true capitalists and robber barons. Nowadays there are few true capitalists, by which I mean individuals who entirely own and control the capital/means of production.
Marx's economics doesn't rely in any way on individual control of the means of production.
-- Ian
Posted on: 19 October 2004 by Jez Quigley
quote:
Marx's economics doesn't rely in any way on individual control of the means of production.
-- Ian
I'm getting to the edge of my knowledge here, but wasn't this area the contribution of Lenin to Marxist theory? ie. the globalisation of capitalism and the ownership of the means of production by international finance.
Posted on: 19 October 2004 by JohanR
quote:
If I remember correctly he said that there were only two main classes - those that owned capital and the means of production, and those that sold their 'labour power' to them - the proletarians.
It's of course not uncommon today that the employees of a company is owning a part of it through stocks. Muddles the picture a bit.
quote:
Marx lived in the age of the true capitalists and robber barons. Nowadays there are few true capitalists, by which I mean individuals who entirely own and control the capital/means of production.
One of the most obvious of those few true capitalists was, until recently, Bill Gates. It will be noted that he didn't own a private jet until he started to lose the absolute control over his own company - instead he flew economy class. Now Microsoft has private jets.
THE most obvious of those is probably the founder of, and still head of, IKEA, Ingvar Kamprad. It's privatly owned, and he owns and controls the company to 100%. And he still travels by economy class.
He is also now considered the richest individual on this planet.
JohanR
Posted on: 20 October 2004 by Bruce Woodhouse
Odd isn't it that being 'middle class' is not an aspiration to some people but some sort of insult.
My parents consider themselves to have been working class throughout their lives. They live in a 4k bungalow in rural Essex, own two cars and posh caravan, read the Telegraph and worship Radio 4 and the BBC, considering ITV to be the work of the devil and Channel 4 to be largely pornogrpahy. They have always owned their own house and have never owed a single penny except on a mortgage. When I suggested (in an ill-advised political discussion) that they were pretty typical middle-class they were appalled!
Bruce
Posted on: 20 October 2004 by sideshowbob
quote:
Originally posted by Jez Quigley:
quote:
Marx's economics doesn't rely in any way on individual control of the means of production.
-- Ian
I'm getting to the edge of my knowledge here, but wasn't this area the contribution of Lenin to Marxist theory? ie. the globalisation of capitalism and the ownership of the means of production by international finance.
Yes and no. There's plenty in Marx about bureaucratisation of the control of capital, an idea later developed by Bukharin, whose work was subsequently influential on Lenin.
-- Ian
Posted on: 20 October 2004 by Geoff P
Speaking from a certain age point here:
As I recall it the middle classes where those prone to the disease of "Keeping up with the Jones's".
The other memory I have is of a famous funny sketch with John Cleese, Ronnie Barker, and Ronnie Corbet representing Upper Class, Middle Class & Working Class in the order I have listed them and explain the rules of that.
Also Working class were from "Up North", Middle Class were from "Down Sarf".
In other words we were taught to, as Ronnie Corbet put it "know our place". This and other key differentiators (toungue in cheek here) brought us up to be confident of our starting point in society's hierearchy.
That's all gone now, people now disguise themselves from instant classification. Who wears a bowler hat now fer chissake! The availability of instant credit puts anybody on the beach at Monte Carlo if they so wish it (not discussing the consequences of that just the effect). The "Jones's" don't REALLY exist now though some think they do. The only rule that has stayed with us is "the Rich get richer, the Poor get poorer" which overarches all the underlying ways in which government and business continues to sidestep responsibility and shaft the vast majority of us one way or another.
regards
GEOFF
The boring old fart
Posted on: 20 October 2004 by Deane F
I'd be interested in comments from forum members about how they came to their knowledge of their place in the class system. I grew up in New Zealand with no discussion, either at home or at school, about class or prestige. It's interesting to me that class is still felt so strongly by people from the UK.
I think schools help ingrain this knowledge. In New Zealand we have some prestige schools but I doubt that any particular advantage accrues to having been to those schools - at least no advantage that outweighs merit particularly.
Deane
Posted on: 20 October 2004 by bhazen
Anybody who makes enough to afford a decent-looking wife is middle-class. Affording a "Page 3" girl or aspiring model means you're rich.
Posted on: 20 October 2004 by Bhoyo
quote:
Originally posted by bhazen:
Affording a "Page 3" girl or aspiring model means you're rich.
...but have no class.
Regards,
Davie
Posted on: 20 October 2004 by Roy T
If you are real middle class I expect your sister may well be your wife (so as to keep the money in the family) and it may also account for the
quote:
The middle classes are the rude, irritating, braying f*ckwits who don't know how to queue properly at Heals' checkout.
observation.
Posted on: 21 October 2004 by Nick_S
Dean F wrote:
"In New Zealand we have some prestige schools but I doubt that any particular advantage accrues to having been to those schools - at least no advantage that outweighs merit particularly."
Your assertion about New Zealand schools is backed up by the OECD Programme for International Student Assessment study in 2000. This found that of the total variation in 15-year olds' reading literacy scores, in New Zealand a low value of 16% could be attributed to schools, in the UK 21%, while Germany Belgium and Austria had high values of 60%. The latter countries showing a remarkable variation among schools.
Posted on: 21 October 2004 by Laurie Saunders
quote:
The middle classes are the people who think Michael Palin's Himalayas is the best programme ever.
Well that counts me out then!!!!!
Laurie S