farenheit 9/11

I will try to see the film, but I'll also try and keep an open mind, considering Michael's obvious extreme hatred of that clown.

Tony

I saw it in Toronto on Saturday evening. Although it was pretty much a full house I didn't have to queue.

I'm glad I went to see it and it is indeed very damning of Bush and his administration. However it also extremely bias and I would seriously think about categorizing it as propaganda as opposed to a documentary.

There is a lot of editing in there to make Bush and associates seem as dumb as possible (although not much editing was needed to make Britney seem dumb). There was also some information left out and I would call part of it lies (due to not telling the full truth as opposed to telling wrong information).

As long as you know Moores has shot it with an agenda and take this into account then it is ok. I would personally prefer a more neutral view of events and I'm still trying to decide on the film overall, but it has at least interested into looking into some of the issues raised in more detail.

I just saw it this afternoon (London).
Highly recommended.

It is one-sided, but then so is all the information we have received from the "other side" and this is not something that Michael Moore's film needs to point out.

I thought the handling of much of the material very sensitive, which is not easy when someone is taking the piss, with humour, out of circumstances surrounding such serious issues. Although it is baised, and propaganda, I doubt anything (included) is actually untrue, in which case there is no way Bush could/should possibly be re-elected.

All a bit soft on Blair, 'though.

I hope to see it soon then I'll read and make comments !

Michael Moore is one of the biggest phonies what ever burst upon the scene...poses as a "man of the people" while sending his kids to expensive private schools, investing in muni bonds (while decrying "tax cuts for the rich"), living in million-dollar mansions, and generally ordering his private life like a Republican while churning out leftist propaganda. Albeit propaganda I agree with generally, as regards George Bush, Jr. "F/911" is screaming to the choir, like what O'Reilly or Limbaugh do for the committed R's.

It's difficult to get a balanced, unbiased picture of anything today - although maybe that's always been the case, it's just that the presentation is less subtle than it used to be. But this makes no difference. At least Moore and his ilk are giving us something to bite into. I'm glad he's doing what he does but I'm not swallowing it whole. That would be rather silly. Haven't seen it yet but will for sure.

Cheers

Harry

What is “a man of the people”? Surely it’s someone who has some link to the lives of the general populace. Moore came from a middle class background went to high school, dropped out of University, became a journo and has achieved success through his books and movies. For a considerable portion of his life, he has had a dull, suburban existence like the rest of us; you can’t take that link away from him and I guess that this is what enables him to connect with the bloke on the street. It’s a bit ridiculous to contend that he’s a phoney because he doesn’t still live in a 3 bed bungalow in a suburb of Flint and send his kids on the bus to the local high school. The opulence of his lifestyle is irrelevant if he sticks to his principles. Irrespective of where he lives, once he starts stealing from the poor, giving to the rich and sending people off to die to fill his mate’s coffers, then he can shut the hell up. I haven’t checked but I’d be surprised if there were more than a handful of US politicians that could claim similar origins; and these guys are elected to represent the people.

I may be wrong on this, but isn’t it perfectly legit to have a muni portfolio? I have a US client who I recall has a stack of these. Aren’t these just potentially tax-free bonds issued by local government to cover capital projects or repair programmes? I can’t really see how having such bonds precludes one from criticising a $477bn tax break for the richest 1% of US taxpayers.

I also can’t see how using your earned wealth to send your kids to private school or buy yourself a large house means that you’re a phoney if you shine a torch on the endemic corruption in the political and commercial circles of one’s country.

I don’t get how shouting about political corruption and lies and campaigning for the rights of workers and protection of the environment is “leftist propaganda”. This “screw the little men and screw the environment” attitude has been exhibited through the years by politicians of the left and the right.

Apparently the guy’s an arse to work for, fairly self-obsessed and I personally find his written style laboured and tiresome, but if he’s telling as many lies as his apoplectic detractors would have you believe, I am baffled by the lack of specific denials and subsequent litigation. I suspect that there are an army of serial liars, never mind phoneys, in Washington and the Republican media to get through way before one gets to Michael Moore.

The 911 reviews have been so positive that I’m gearing up for disappointment.

quote:

---

The 911 reviews have been so positive that I’m gearing up for disappointment.

---

BigMick --

You obviously haven't read Mark Kermode's review in Yesterday's Observer! However, I think MK grabbed the wrong end of the stick -- he was reviewing it as a documentary, whereas it's clearly a piece of entertainment with a specific political agenda (one that I wholeheartedly support).

Also, I somehow think that the good citizens of Europe were not foremost in Mr. Moore's mind when he was in the editing suite...

Cheers,

Tim
_____________________________

Os nid Campagnolo yw hi, dyw hi ddim yn werth ei marcho...

quote:

---

The 911 reviews have been so positive that I’m gearing up for disappointment.

---

BigMick --

You obviously haven't read Mark Kermode's review in Yesterday's Observer!

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,6903,1258400,00.html

However, I think MK grabbed the wrong end of the stick -- he was reviewing it as a documentary, whereas it's clearly a piece of entertainment with a specific political agenda (one that I wholeheartedly support).

Also, I somehow think that the good citizens of Europe were not foremost in Mr. Moore's mind when he was in the editing suite...

Will see it tonight. Looking forward to it.


Cheers,

Tim
_____________________________

Os nid Campagnolo yw hi, dyw hi ddim yn werth ei marcho...

Fair point Tim, though in truth, a thumbs up from Kermode would have probably killed any desire I had to see it stone dead.

Christ, maybe I dreamt the reviews or confused it with Shrek 2. Anyway, in a perverse way it's good to hear it getting a slagging for balance. Brings expectations back to a realistic level.

I took my 15-year-old son and his pal to see it a couple of weeks ago - mainly so thay know what to tell any military recruiters who show up at their school.

No, the movie's not particularly well-argued, there's little that hasn't been said before, it's not close to being balanced etc etc. But it's hugely entertaining.

quote:

---

Originally posted by rodwsmith:
All a bit soft on Blair, 'though.

---

There's been speculation, denied by Moore, that his next film will put the crosshairs on Blair:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3800665.stm

PS- When will Moore replace his awful wardrobe?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tim Danaher:
http://film.guardian.co.uk/features/featurepages/0,4120,1249156,00.html
You obviously haven't read Mark Kermode's review in Yesterday's Observer!

---

No surprises here. Mark Kermode seems to be just one of a number of Observer journalists with an axe to grind with Michael Moore. The first three paragraphs of his review retread ground already covered in his recent anti-Moore polemic Moore is shameless in feeding his own ego from The Observer of 27 June.

I'm more inclined to believe Peter Bradshaw's more favourable review in Friday's Grauniad.

But I'll reserve judgement until I've seen the film myself.

[This message was edited by Paul Davies on Tue 13 July 2004 at 5:10.]

BUGGER!

Both evening performances sold out!

Oh, and BigMick and Paul D --

Don't be too hard on Mark Kermode -- he and I used to go out with a pair sisters (I don't know him, I stress). Believe me, he's probably still suffering from the psychological damage. I know I am

Cheers,

Tim
_____________________________

Os nid Campagnolo yw hi, dyw hi ddim yn werth ei marcho...

Would check if Mark commmode told me it was Tuesday today.