Back to basics !

I have a lot of sympathy with this view. I often think that if I were putting together a hi fi system from scratch today, knowing what I now know, I could be perfectly happy with an Exposure integrated (or Nait if I was a Naimie) driving some Epos ES11s and maybe a Meridian 506 or even a Rotel 971 CD player, and a Project 6 turntable.

Of course, we always look back nostalgically on simpler systems we've owned in the past, and this may have more to do with recollections of youth than hi fi.

Ross

I think the stereo system is a "medium" (I hope it is the right word)to hear music at home.
The better the system the greater the enjoyment.

I don't think anyone should relate the system in an other way, I find it quite similar to the question - do you want money because you like money or because you like the things you can do with money ?

So unless I have possibility to improve my system
I don't care about it or about the history of it
all I care is that it will play music the right way when I wish it to play.

Arie

I think my ears have become far more finely tuned over the years, as I could see what I loved about this system when I owned it originally i.e. it plays music very well indeed for 1500 quid. But there is no way I could go back to it. I spend a lot of time in recording studios sat in front of desks and monitors tweeking the sound so we're happy with it. I used to hate coming home and playing it on the nait/epos set up cos it just missed so much out, weight, grip,even the timing could be a bit hit and miss when the music got really busy. So it was this frustration which led me to the upgrade ladder, and it's taken a good few years, but now I have a system which reveals how well we did at getting it right in the studio because it does stuff better than nearly every pro studio monitor set-up that I've heard.

It is because of this revealling quality that most engineers and producers (not naming names) won't entertain the idea of buying a decent hifi.
They're gonna hear every bad punch in/ punch out they did in the middle of a vocal or guitar track, they are also gonna hear all the horrible de-esser that was applied to the vocal because they compressed it so much that it became really sibilant.... all this and more, but if thats whats on the record then I want to hear it.

I think perhaps we look back on our starter systems with happy memories because it's where it all started and its what got us more into music. I loved my 1982 X reg blue mini. It was my first car and it went round corners really well. But I wouldn't have another.

I would encourage all CDSII and 52 owners to strongly evaluate this move and act. I might then (somewhat charitably) snap up your unwanted top-flight kit.

Rico - musichead

Total cost about 450 GBP.

I've been relatively well off for a few years and found I was having difficulty spending my CD budget. So I though I'd get some better 'speakers in order to maximise listening to what I had and loved. There are only so many version of Mozart's Requiem and A Kind of Blue you can own, after all.I decided I'd investigate hi-fi.

I was blown away.

I am now 11,000 GBP poorer and saving up for a CDSII. Bitten. Hook, line ..etc.

Give me none of this back to basics stuff. I wish to throw all of my money at Naim and a couple of other manufacturers. I am still search for the limit. I will spend the rest of my life doing so.

I do not claim to be a well-rounded human being.
I am not a very nice person.
I am obsessive.
I prefer being on my own in a dark room, with my eyes closed and tapping my feet than interacting with these other human things I see walking about.
I am a hi-fi dealers wet dream.

I am loving it.

Sell me not this nostalgia unless you really want your WC in a shed at the bottom of the garden.

Jonathan - recent but absolute audio convert.

I used to think back fondly to my first decent system. Back in 1973 I had LP12, Harrison Chapman amp ( one of the fist amps with toroid transformer ) & Studiocraft speakers. This system really kicked.

Music was my whole life then, playing in a band as well, & it has only been in the past few months that I can honestly say that I have a system that I am enjoying more than that one.

What did it for me was going active with my IBL's. I will try not to get on my soap box and preach the virtues of active. It's just that albums that I bought back in '73, for the first time since then, I am actually enjoying more. I put this down to having to spend a great deal of money on a very good system to penetrate my hardened senses.

As I have other things in my life now like wife, children, career, mortgage etc: etc: I think it takes a far greater 'hit' to get to ones soul. I'm fairly confident if I were much younger without a care in the world a far more modest system would totally blow me away.

B

[This message was edited by bob atherton on WEDNESDAY 04 October 2000 at 11:46.

[This message was edited by bob atherton on WEDNESDAY 04 October 2000 at 13:30.]

Otherwise, I'll stick with what I've got now thanks.

Regards,
Frank.

quote:

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Does anyone else ever look back at when we started out--with a LP12, Nait 1 and Kans or variations on the above--and wonder if it all wasn't more fun that way ?

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Very often, and to the point where I have ended up with a system that is actually a more polished version of the above.

My old Xerxes / Onix OA21 / Kan IIs offered unbelievable musical value for what it cost when I bought it in 1986/7. After a few misguided upgrade attempts to attain a "full range" sound I'm now back with Kans - to my ears bigger now almost always means less fun - definitely in my price range.

I am now very happy with my P9 / CD17KI / 32-5 / Hicap / 135 / Kan IIs - very similar in concept and overall strengths to both the above systems, just far more detailed, refined, and powerful. I am also a firm believer in the law of diminishing returns, though everyone draws their own line as to where it kicks in, for me it is actually quite low.

Tony.

quote:

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I might then (somewhat charitably) snap up your unwanted top-flight kit.

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Not if I get there first, Rico.

I had a moment of audio nostalgia recently when I set up a Nait 2 with B&W 302 speakers for a newbie friend. I was simply astonished at how good the system was, and had a moment of questioning whether I was nuts to upgrade from my originnal Nait to CDX/52/250. Then I went home and listened to it. I don't see how anybody would choose to return to ground zero based on the sole criterion of sound. Finances - now, that's another matter.

Don

For the past 4 years I've been using Cyrus equipment and, in typical fashion, this mushroomed into an 8 box rig using 'special' mains cables plus an external phono stage, plus a step-up transformer, spikes and cones galore - you get the picture....

Well, as the system became more complex/expensive it also sounded more impressive in traditional hi-fi virtues. Smoother, sweeter, richer etc.
It also became progressivly less musical, to the point where I had practically stopped playing it.
This was not a sudden change. I'd got a fantastic hi-fi that couldn't play music! - I'd lost the plot.

Last week I sold the whole shebang - and this week I have become the proud owner of a CDI/102/NAPSC/HiCap/180 which I'm using into another (later) pair of Epos ES14's - and it sounds f***ing great!

Lesson: If it aint broke - don't fix it!

Rob

Cool Post

Thats all

Regards P.- man of mystery and suspense (it's a colonial thing it seems .I'm not referring to irrigation)

[This message was edited by Pierre on WEDNESDAY 04 October 2000 at 20:08.]

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Does anyone else ever look back at when we started out--with a LP12, Nait 1 and Kans or variations on the above

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I'm almost embarrassed to state what my first bit of kit was, let alone wanting to go back to it. Shudder !!

Rico said

quote:

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I often think about this, and know a few people that have gone back to a classic system - 'downgraded'

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Aren't you almost there with your LP12 and Kans? Surely you would have no use for a SuperCap if I got you a NAIT1 to complete your retro picture

Tony Lonorgan said

quote:

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I am also a firm believer in the law of diminishing returns, though everyone draws their own line as to where it kicks in, for me it is actually quite low.

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I normally subscribe to Tony's view about diminishing returns. My recent experience of replacing "bought-new" items with superior but second hand replacements have illustrated how cost effective bargain opportunities can be. That is until you hear what the CDS2 can do and suddenly 20 grand doesn't seem that much, and returning to an entry level CD player is completely nonsensical.

Rob Holt said

quote:

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Last week I sold the whole shebang - and this week I have become the proud owner of a CDI/102/NAPSC/HiCap/180 which I'm using into another (later) pair of Epos ES14's

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Welcome back to reality. When I got into Naim, I swore I would stop at 102/HiCap/180. If you are truly happy with what you have, my advice would be:

I recall 10 years on the impact of moving from Ittok to Ekos for example; the progression through 1 and 2 Hi Caps to Supercap provided a similar experience. There is no way that I would accept a move in the opposite direction.

Better kit should make this a better, fuller trip. If not, or if your not getting the trip at all (that is, you sit there and listen for each new element - just to see how the kit will render it), why bother?

Of course, you could bother just from the hobbiest end of it, but that's not my bag. For me, the kit is a means to an end :

- GregB
Freedom is not in finding the Holy Grail but in stopping the search for it

Good point. I started the slippery upgrade path as a way of hearing more .. and I do now catch myself listening to the sounds and not the music at times. This is bad. But it never lasts long - 'cos something always comes along quite soon that has my foot tapping - and (I'm afraid) singing along quite badly.

We do this for the music, yes ?

Jonathan

I do not have a Naim CD player in the expensive system and so tried an expensive interconnect recently (Nordost Red Dawn). It was much better than my current Blue Heaven ... much more detailed. Interstingly I thought "who needs it", its already a great system and I did not buy it. Hi-Fi, I can handle it.

Nic P

I am going to try going back to a 72/Hicap/250/Kans to see if I can stand it---will report back. I already know the sound won't be as good, I am interested in just getting back to the point where I can't wait to pick up new music and anxiously waited for the next cool release.

See you all in the asylum !

Cheers,

Bobˇ

quote:

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So here I am with a downgraded system. Pair of home-brew Monoblocks (not 135-alikes), Three of my PSUs, a 62 a Prefix, a modded LP12/Prefix/Home-brew TT PSU and some Isobariks

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*Cough*

Monoblocks? THREE PSUs??? Briks???

And you forgot to mention the umpteen levels of Mana.

C'mon - when are you gonna *REALLY* downgrade.

I KNOW you are up to it...

- GregB
[Still reading about TF's escapades with genuine interest]

Tony.

Paul

Roll on Mike's alternative. Mean time, keep posting, gang, and don't toss your toys...

Rico - musichead

There is maybe one large effect of the quality of the system, and that's the scope of the types of music - I'm more open to various kinds of music because my system can handle them without much noticing of the hifi from my side.

Omer.

PS, sometimes the improved dynamics in the music DO strike me...

...now my reply looks a little goofy. Oh well. At least I quoted the important bit

And, Omer, I agree with you about mindset. Some of us, well, me anyway, has trouble forgetting about the hi-fi when the kit costs so much and is an object of obsession. I mean, we (collectively, and exclude yourself if you want) worry about whether the CDX sounds better with our without 3M pads under the feet. With this mindset, how can we possibly forget the hi-fi and just enjoy music?

Sure, it happens sometimes - and there is 'evaluation time' and 'listening time'. But I bet many of us spend *a lot* of time evaluating and have a hard time turning that off and just enjoying music. A downgraded system can be easier to get along with in this regard. But this is all very personal psychological stuff.

I hope those with 52s, CDSIIs, and NAP500s can just enjoy the music their wonderful kit provides

- GregB
Freedom is not in finding the Holy Grail but in stopping the search for it

Cheers

Bill