Buying a budget turntable

Posted by: nodrog on 10 December 2001

I am in the market for a not too expensive turntable to take advantage of dirt cheap used vinyl and some newer desirable stuff (eg the new Aphex Twin album which looks so spiffy in its longer than standard case) What does 'the panel' think of the Music Hall MMF-2.1 as a possible purchase? I am not looking for the ultimate here, just something to remind myself of what I am missing.

My amp is a CDNait 2 with just ordered Gram Amp 2. This is sounding rather good at the moment with dedicated mains supply and Rocksolid speakers, which I previously posted on but no-one took any interest in...must be too cheap, I guess!

Thankyou,

Peter

PS: I became a proper 'member' at last. Hurrah!

Posted on: 10 December 2001 by Dev B

I haven't heard the Music Hall, but is a s/h LP12, Shittock out of the question? These can be bought pretty cheaply and would out perform a lesser deck. I would avoid s/h old Xerxes cos they sag and sound like CD players.
regards
Dev

Posted on: 10 December 2001 by Tony L

quote:
What does 'the panel' think of the Music Hall MMF-2.1 as a possible purchase?

I have never heard one, though IIRC it was designed by the same person as the old Revolver range so should be ok. My advice though would be to scrape the little extra together and land the all time budget classic, a Rega 3. The Planer 3 is the deck to beat in lower price range, is proven, reliable, and virtually indestructible. Stick a decent cartridge into it, plonk it in the right place and you have a turntable that can embarrass some very expensive digital front ends. The new P3 is allegedly even better than it was having better pitch stability. The RB300 arm is a true classic and is unbelievably under priced.

Dev's option of a cheap LP12 makes a lot of sense in the UK, but I notice you live where there is no such thing.

Tony.

PS Dev, you find me a CD player that sounds like a top flight Xerxes and I will swap a CDX for it!

Posted on: 10 December 2001 by nodrog

S/H Sondeks, as you rightly say, are out of the equation where I am. There seem to be two alternatives in the audio outlets of Japan: either the ludicrously expensive or the ludicrously crap. I have seen the P3 here but it is 76000yen (abt 400GBP), which I think is excessive as the reviews are only so-so. I found the MMF-2.1 but was unable to get a demo (useless anyway in japan as every demo room has either 100 speakers or 100 people, making it somewhat difficult to make a judgement)

The MMF-2.1, however, is available for purchase on the internet for the v. good price of USD299 and has some good, even excellent reviews. So long as it's slightly tweakable and slightly more listenable, I think it's worth a try.

Thanks,
Peter

Posted on: 10 December 2001 by Phil Barry

I am surprised that the P3 got so-so reviews that you read. I run an LP12/ARO, but I think I could live pretty happily with a P3. And if the Project is half the cost, I would expect it not to be as good. (Both have to be imported from Europe, don't they? And if the Project is available through the grey market, why not import a P3 yourself?)

Phil

Posted on: 10 December 2001 by Bob Edwards

Tony's advice is absolutely correct--don't bother with the MMF; save up until you can get either a new Rega P3 or a used Planar 3. The MMF is just one step up from the crap you so rightly want to avoid. Alternatively, get a Rega P2--heard one side by side v the MMF and the Rega killed it.

Cheers and good luck !

Bob

Posted on: 10 December 2001 by Tony L

quote:
I have seen the P3 here but it is 76000yen (abt 400GBP), which I think is excessive as the reviews are only so-so.

Don't pay too much attention to reviews in general, and Rega in particular. Unless things have changed recently Rega never provided review product to magazines, and never had any desire to get their products reviewed, even more significantly Rega never bought advertising space. The combination of no advertising revenue, no free or heavily discounted review samples etc made a magazines motivation to give glowing reviews a little less obvious. I'm not saying that all magazines work on this basis, but there are a hell of a lot of backhanders going on in the audio industry.

The P3 is a great deck, I am convinced that opinion will be consistent throughout everyone who has heard one here, and that is probably the majority. How it compares with the Music Hall I can't say. How about considering a second hand P3? They hold their value incredibly well, you would get back the same or more when you came to sell it, and it would definitely still be working at that time.

Tony.

Posted on: 10 December 2001 by Mike in CO

Nearly every LP enthusiast I know has at some point found their way to provide a home for one of Rega's decks. Many haven't let them out of their sight, particularly the Planar 3. And that's with good reason. Properly set up, (which is child's play, frankly, compared to an LP12), they are wonderful 'tables that will satisfy all but the most finicky of listeners. When the price difference is small to move from a lesser known product to a well-known, highly respected one, the decision to wait and save up seems a smart one to me. You may never have to buy another 'table again!

Posted on: 10 December 2001 by sceptic

Buy the Rega.

Posted on: 10 December 2001 by sonofcolin

Had a P2. Sold it for a 2nd hand P3 which i sold for a new P9. Buy the Rega.

Posted on: 10 December 2001 by Greg Beatty

...which is great advice (having owned one for 15+ years), I would add, "Check the bearings" if you buy a second-hand one.

I parted with mine when I hooked it up to my more-revealing Naim gear (not much up from what you have, BTW) and heard a steady grunge sound under everything. I had not oiled the bearing - ever! The bearing well dried out and the bearing went.

So...do listen and check the bearing before you buy.

I *may* just part with my LP12 and get me a new P3. I love the way they are not fiddly and have a more modern look to them than an LP12.

- Greg

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Posted on: 11 December 2001 by Tim Oldridge

Get the Rega !

"The new P3 is allegedly even better than it was having better pitch stability"

I've heard mixed reports about the new P3 (strictly speaking, the old version is called the "Rega Planer 3 and the new one the "Rega P3"). Some people say that, with the new plinth and/or motor mount, some of the charm of the Planer has been lost. Frankly, if you can find a good example of either version second-hand, buy it. If you end up buying new, don't worry about the difference.

Timo

P.S. the lime green Planer 3s are thought to sound best, but I'm a sceptic myself since hearing the shameful sounds coming from Jawed's Rega of that colour. I wonder if his bearings are knackered or maybe it's just the 300 year old stylus.

Posted on: 11 December 2001 by Martin Payne

quote:
Originally posted by Tim Oldridge:
Some people say that, with the new plinth and/or motor mount, some of the charm of the Planer has been lost.

My God - "Rega in Cirkus-like fiasco - shock! horror!"

;-)

cheers, Martin

Posted on: 11 December 2001 by Peter Stockwell

Peter,

Somebody said that every vinyl enthusiast has had a rega at one time or another. I've had one, twice, and they get to the heart of the music and easy to sell on after.

Their number one virtue, for me, is their plug'n'play simplicity.

Peter

Posted on: 12 December 2001 by man2wolf

I agree with the consensus - buy a Rega. I bought a new Planar 3 in 1983. The fact that I have not felt the need to upgrade in all that time must say something. They are solid performers, easy to set up and maintain, and extremely reliable.

Posted on: 11 January 2002 by nodrog

As an update to my earlier message, I have now become the proud owner of a new Rega P3, with Ortofon MC-1 turbo cartridge. It is sounding brilliant and will presumably only improve as it runs in. The phono amp is a Gram amp 2, very clear and uncoloured. What I need now is a decent rack/table to put everything on, as the system is all rather unhappily placed on a kind of low table (kotatsu, actually) on the tatami floor. It's not ideal.

I guess I'll be buying a lot more records from now on. I've found a Simply Vinyl release of Tom Waits Swordfishtrombones which sounds wonderful Does anyone have any more from this label? How much are they in the UK?

Thanks for all your (persuasive) advice on this!

Peter

Posted on: 11 January 2002 by Phil Barry

How old is the tatami? I would think that the sensual pleasure providied by tatami more than makes up for its lack of stability.

Oh, congratulations on your P3. Good luck on your hunt for vinyl.

Regards.

Phil

Posted on: 11 January 2002 by Steve Toy

I have demo'd this turntable against a P3 with the same Elys cart, and the P25 was much better in the PR&T department.

Should I max out on MC cartridges, buy a Rega EXACT cart, or wait until I have the resources for a P9?

The P25 at the moment is not as musical as my CDX.

Placing the P25 on a QS Ref. shelf may improve matters, I know - it is currently on a Rega shelf.

I'm not interested in an LP 12, as it would sound better on Mana, which I refuse to buy on personal principle...

It's always a nice day for it Have a good one!
Steve.
It's good to get back to normal.