What's above a DV-XX2? What works best with an ARO?

John, you can keep going up the DV ladder -> Te Kaitora (wonderfully melifluous in an Aro, bit more laid back than xx2) -> Dr T (probably wasted in an LP12). Other ranges to look at are Lyra and Benz, with the Lyras often the carts of choice in Aros.

Alex

Thanks Alex, I unfortunately don't have the opportunity to actually listen first.

Where is Kris Coster, his opinions are very well respected. I am sure he has heard many cartridges in his LP12. I would love to know what cartridges sing in the Naimed LP12.

John--

The Lyra Helikon SL works brilliantly in the Aro. Or at least it did the last time I heard it, which was in Chris Kosters system some time ago. Mark Dunn uses a XV1 (I believe) and says it is astonishingly good.

Best Regards,

Bob Edwards

Ross--

I have not--I'm still using a Troika into my Prefix K/Hicap.

When I heard Chris K's system he had a Helikon SL running into a Prefix K/Supercap and there was plenty of gain. It was connected to a 52. The standard Helikon has too much output for the K Prefix--it was audibly overloading. The SL/Prefix/Supercap combo sounded awesome.

Best Regards,

Bob Edwards

Hi guys,
i heard that there are some mounting issues with regards to overhang if certain cartridges are used on the ARO. the Aro seems to be designed with the Troika in mind and the 3 mounting holes are meant solely for it.

I also heard that all the Dynavectors can be used without compromising the overhang. is that true?

Hello Bob
Do you know if the Helikon SL would work with the Prefix S or would I need the standard output version?
I am keen to upgrade my current cartridge, an Ortofon MC15 Super 2 in the near future and I am using an ARO too.
Many thanks, Julian

Thanks Bob, assuming the Troika is similar in character to my XX2, how does it compare to the Helikon SL? Is the Helikon clearly better? or does it just have a difference emphasis?

Also you noted you are using a K prefix with your Troika. Did you have the opportunity to compare the K with the S? The S was recommended to me with the XX2 and I suspect the S would have been recommended by Naim with the Troika.

Your help is appreciated.

John

Julian:

I don't think the "S" prefix would work well with the SL Helikon. The regular Helikon would probably be ok though, but I would ask NANA. IIRC the Helikon SL was made by Lyra by specific request from Chris Koster to the Lyra importer to work with the "K" Prefix. In any even you could have yours converted to a "K" by Nana. The SL is the same as a regular Helikon but with a few less windings around the coil for lower output.

I have the Helikon SL with the "K" Preix and ARO. I find the match as good as I have heard from any combination. Even poorly set up it sounds quite good. Seems a very natural combination. It was a decided step up from my prior Lyra Lydian which was no slouch either.

John:

The Aro seems to be a very broad range arm. I have seen very few posts about cartridges that do not work well with it. Actually, I can't think of any bad posts I've seen about cartridges that don't work well with the Aro.

There is the issue of cost however and I can't say that I would reommend buying a used Helikon.

Arthur Bye

Arthur,

Frank Abela regularly dis's the combo of Aro with one of the Linn carts.

Can't think of any others, though.

cheers, Martin

E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com

Some replies:

Julian--I don't know if a Helikon SL would work with an S Prefix. I suspect it would but that it would not sound as brilliant as it does with the K version. The S boards are, as I understand them, somewhat band limited relative to the K boards.

John--The Helikon SL is clearly and obviously better than the Troika (Ouch!). Specifically, it is more tuneful, clearer, much more informative, and simply more fun to listen to. I've not heard the XX2, so cannot offer any commentary on it. Also, the K boards were designed for the Karma/Troika series and I'm reliably informed the K boards are, on an absolute basis, better sounding than the S boards. I highly doubt Naim would recommend S boards with the Troika.

And I believe Arthur is correct about the genesis of the SL. I heard the standard Helikon in Chris K's system and it sounded great into a K Prefix/Scap, but as I noted above it was audibly overloading the Prefix.

Put it this way: When my Troika wears out I will either have Expert Stylus retip it or, depending on finances, buy a new Helikon SL.

Best Regards,

Bob Edwards

Thanks for the info Bob. I was mixing up the Te Kaitora and the Troika.

The issue for me is I understand the XX2/Prefix/Supercap is just "too much" and the Prefix/Hicap is only subjectively better than my Prefix/52. Some prefer the Prefix/52.

I love my XX2/S prefix as it stands now but I suspect there are higher heights in vinyl. I loved my SBLs and didn't understand what was missing until I bought some NBLs. Huge gains. I am listening to vinyl only now and would like to maximize it or at least understand what my paths are to improve it.

Do I need a Helikon SL or better before a Supercap can be used? Is the XX2/Prefix/Supercap too much? It makes more sense to me that it would get more refined/smoother as there is no hint of it being "too much" now.

John

John, such experience that I have would advise you to get a Supercap before changing the XX2.

Bob, I'd tread carefully with an ES re-tipped Troika. I think they must be hit and miss; mine was a definate miss compared to my original Troika. The XX2 is IMO in a different (higher) league to any Troika and I'm sure the Lyra would be too.

Alex

Ross, takes all sorts innit. How's your Vibrapods? My XX2 is running through DV phono stage and amps, could be a system thing although there are plenty of happy LP12/XX2/Naim users out there.

The main problem is its so difficult to get a cart dem these days and big carts are big risks.

Alex

Thanks Ross. My TT is a fully Naimed LP12. What don't you like about the XX2? I really like it but to be honest I didn't have the opportunity to listen to it first or compare it.

I would love to hear from someone who uses a XX2/Prefix/Supercap. Based on what I have read the supercap route (vs hicap) sounds the most attractive. There are varying opinions on the hicap but most have a jaw dropping experience with the supercap.

John

John--

As I said, I've not heard the XX2, so take this for what it is worth: Your next upgrade should be, IMO, a Supercap for your Prefix. It is absolutely astonishing to hear the improvement from a Hicap. In fact, I just tried putting my Supercap on my Prefix and my Hicap on my 72--the improvement for phono replay is enormous--one of those few times when even jaded me is taken aback.

From what other people who I do know have said, the XX2 is plenty good enough to justify it.

Best,

Bob

Ross,

quote:

---

Could be a synergy thing (which is probably also why a Troika sounds fantastic in an Ekos into a Prefix), and there are enough people here who love the XX2 and other DV cartridges at least as much as I dislike them to show that it really is a matter of chacun à son gout.

---

Have you been using a K or S Prefix for these cartridge comparisons? The reason I ask is that the K version is without a doubt the one to use with a Troika -- or Karma for that matter -- but it appears that the S version is better with all of DV's low-output moving coils.

Granted, I've never been able to find a definitive answer on K vs S from a forum search, so it may be down to personal preference. But I asked Mike Pranka, the U.S. DV rep, and his opinion is that S is the way to go with low-output Dynavectors like the XX-1L, XX-2, Te Kaitora and XV-1. All this is moot of course if you're happy with your Troika and if you've sold your XX-2, but non-optimal cartridge loading might be the reason why you didn't get on with the XX-2, a cartridge quite a few Naimie's really like.

Joe

John

Never heard an XX2 but i bought an XV1 in preference to a Te Kaitora about 18 months ago ... The gulf between the two was ENORMOUS ... i was convinced within half a track

Both DV's were miles better than Clavis DC ... but that was a bit knackered by then

I also use a Naimed LP12

Some say the XX2 is like a baby XV1 whilst the Te Kaitora is something different.

Has anyone heard the Benz LP?

Alex

Ross, I'm surprised by your experience. The XX2 is very dynamic in my system. Did you try an S prefix with it? Maybe it's a system difference? The speed and dynamics in my system really picked up when I replace my SBLs with NBLs.

John

Hi John:

See if you can get to hear an XV-1 against the XX2. The XV-1 is (in my opinion) an excellent unit and reveals subtleties that others miss. It also has the most rigidly controlled and extended bass I've heard from vinyl.

Best Regards,
Mark Dunn

Mark,

Do you use S phono cards with your XV-1?

Joe

Hi Joe:

Yes, 'S' boards.

BTW, the XV-1 doesn't really cost as much as a small car you know :-)

Best Regards,
Mark Dunn

Mark, does the XV-1 have a mass issue with the ARO?

John

Ross,

I'm going on a bit but you must have had a duff cart or a duff set-up - the XX2 is a lively beast, its the Te Kaitora which could be accused of being too laid back for some.

Alex

Ross,

Fair comment. I loved the Aro but that was relative to an Ittok. I never demmed an Ekos so who knows. Then I flogged the LP12 and bought a Well Tempered and probably lost all remaining credibility at a stroke.

Alex