Memorex is better!

Posted by: Mike Hanson on 31 May 2001

I'm a frequent attendee to the Toronto Symphony Orchestra. Although the performances themselves are usually very good (with the occasional dud), the sonics in Roy Thompson Hall leave much to be desired.

I've experimented with sitting on the floor near the orchestra, where the tonal balance is wrong, but there's a wonderful sense of immediacy and intimacy. I've also sat in the "expensive" balcony, where the tonal balance is very good, but the notes lose their shape. The notes from the piano all blur together, and you can't really hear the bows hitting the strings.

I've been to other halls where the acoustics are better, and Roy Thompson Hall is about to be re-vamped to improve its own. (People have always complained about the sound.)

This brings me to my ultimate point. I've rarely been to a concert where both the performance and sonics were fantastic. In contrast, my stereo almost never disappoints me. I can pick and choose recordings of the "best" performances, and the sound is almost always stellar.

When I hear people claiming that live music is the yardstick against which we should judge our systems, I have to laugh. Wake up, boys and girls! Live music can be good, but it's just as likely to be a disappointment. In contrast, with our stereos satisfaction is almost always guaranteed.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Posted on: 31 May 2001 by Ron The Mon
Mike,
You've obviously never seen the Young Gods live.

Ron The Mon

Posted on: 31 May 2001 by Dev B
Have you ever been to a rave?
Posted on: 31 May 2001 by John C
With Jazz the opposite is true.

John›

Posted on: 31 May 2001 by Mike Hanson
It's nice to see the good response. wink First of all, let me stress that a great performance in a great hall is a wondrous thing, and yes it's better than listening to my system at home (by a bit). That performance of Mozart's Requiem at the George Weston Recital Hall was one good example.

Second, I was thinking mostly about classical music. Jazz, for example, is almost always better live. However, jazz is improvisational, and is always about "the moment". I usually hear live Jazz in smaller venues, so I don't have to worry about the room screwing with the sound before it gets to my ears. Also, I prefer sit right up close to the performers. If I'm too far back, then the same problems occur as with classical music.

For live "rock", the sound is pretty much always substandard, and is easily bettered by my system. The caveat, though, is that it might be the event that you desire, and not the performance itself. Going go a great big concert with thousands of people can be exciting, just for the energy of it. Sure the sound is shite, but you don't really care. BTW, I don't usually go to live rock gigs, because I don't really care about the "event", the sound is usually crap, and the quality of the performance cannot be predicted. There are a few combinations of artist+venue that entice me, but they are few and far between.

Raves et al. are another thing altogether. In that situation, it's mostly about the environment/atmosphere. Going nuts with a bunch of other people can be fun, although I have to be in the perfect mood to do it. (Most of the time I'm too much of an individualist to blend comfortably.) The sound is always very loud (louder than I would usually play my system), and sonics are sometimes good. Again, the venue can really screw with this, as I've been to a few in warehouses that were boomy, echoey, etc.

BTW, the bass at raves is so extreme that I interpret it as a "special effect" rather than part of the music; IOW, It doesn't blend well. Also, a simple, regular beat bores me. Consequently, most "Dance" music doesn't do anything for me; the complexity and variety of Drum'n'Bass is much more my style. Therefore, I tend to enjoy "Dark Raves", and I simply despise "Happy Hardcore".

So I hope that clarifies my stance a little.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Posted on: 31 May 2001 by Mike Hanson
>> I'm not even going to touch the bit about you being too cool for raves <<

That's not what I said. I don't particularly enjoy being "one of the horde, moving as one". It has nothing to do with "coolness". Hell, if I were considered "cool", then it would mean I'm just like all the other cool people, and then I would have failed as an "individual". wink That's an oversimplification, but I think you get the point: I don't like to be a sheep.

>> What you meant is that your were thinking mostly of Roy Thompson Hall. <<

Nope. I've been to concerts at many different venues, including the George Weston Recital Hall, Glenn Gould Studio at the CBC (which has good acoustics), Massey Hall (the old home of the TSO, and much better than Roy Thompson Hall), the church that Tafelmusik plays in (I can't recall the name, even though I lived two blocks from the place), The Centre of the Arts in Regina (which has amazing acoustics), and probably a few others I can't recall at the moment. Having good acoustics is helpful, although I still prefer to be closer to the stage to minimize the hall interference. I believe our proximity to the stage was a big part of why the Requiem concert was so stunning. If we were at the back of the hall, I suspect we would not have been so impressed. Of course, there's also the issue of the quality of the performance, which will always be hit & miss.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

[This message was edited by Mike Hanson on THURSDAY 31 May 2001 at 18:41.]

Posted on: 31 May 2001 by Phil Barry
Mike brings up a good point - my hifi, too, is better than most live music events.

But, oh, when the performers are 'on'! That's got to be the best music has to offer, and it's worth wading through scads of mediocre concerts.

My top live performances are worth all the stereos in the world:

Turandot, old Metropolitan Opera, 1962
Mahler's 8th, Wolf Trap, 1976(?)
Muddy Waters, Cellar Door, (Wash, DC), 1977
same, South Shore Country Club, Chicago, 1981
Buffy Ste. Marie, same venue, 1978
same artist, Hill Auditorium, Ann Arbor, 1968 or 69
Beet 3rd symphony, Ravinia, 198?
Ali Akhbar Khan, Dallas, 1992
Brahms, Vln Cto, Shaham/CSO, Chicago, 2001
Shaheed Pervaiz, Lemont, IL, 1998

I wouldn't have missed those concerts for the world.

Phil

Posted on: 01 June 2001 by Dev B
Ali Akbar Khan. The master!

I have never been fortunate to hear the great man live, although I love some of this music that I have, these are my favourites from the stuff taht I have:

1.Maihar (on Waterlily acoustics)
2.Indian Architexture, with Swapan Choudhoury on tabla (on Waterlily)
3.The first LP that WaterLily Acoustics ever did simply entitled 'Ali Akbar Khan, Sarod'
4.Signature Series Vol.1,2,3 (recorded by Mark Levinson in the late 60's with Pandit Misra on the tabla.
5.Signature series Vol.4 with Nikhil Banerjee (very emotional stuff)

If you want a CDR of Maihar or no.3, just shout!

Posted on: 03 June 2001 by Eric Barry
He's my dad, but we have independent opinions. Speaking as a rock and jazz listener (but who has only been to a stadium show twice--and the second time it was free), the records on the hi-fi are much more consistent, but the best live shows are beyond category. For me, some of them include:

Paul Flaherty/Daniel Carter/Matt Heyner/Chris Corsano three weeks ago.

Dead C-Lounge Axe 1995

Yo La Tengo-Irving Plaza Sept. '99
-Tramps Fall '96
-Providence January '93

Test-Learning Alliance Summer '98

Lee Renaldo-Summer '95

Truman's Water-every time

Unwound-Tramps '97, Knitting Factory '96

Fugazi-New York '98

Monorchid-every show was amazing, best was August '98

High Rise-Mercury Lounge '99

Little Huey Creative Music Orchestra Summer '00

No Neck Blues Band-79th St. Boat Basin May '97

Etc. But you know, I've probably gone to 40 shows a year since '95 to come up with a handful of truly great performances (probably another half dozen don't spring to mind right now), and most of these involved significant travel time, standing around for hours, sometimes packed in and hot, hearing mediocre or worse openers (or headliners), coming home late, smelling of cigarettes and beer (whether or not I indulged), overhearing trite conversation, being treated like sheep, plus cover charges.

--Eri

Posted on: 03 June 2001 by Chris Bell
I just shot a David Byrne concert, and while his CD is awsome on my CDS2/52/500/DBL system it was nothing compared to the live performance. Every aspect of sound and music was better. Bigger, more expansive, and yes, more tuneful. Interesting was how much bass his nine piece string section made. The whole show sounded amazing--I only wish I was in the audience instead of behind a camera.

Live is almost always better.

Chris Bell

PS: Benaroya Hall in Seattle is an excellent home for the Seattle Symphony. I recommend the 15th row, center. 4